Matt and Sean talk about the possession horror hiding inside Star Trek TOS Season 3, Episode 18, "The Lights of Zetar." An alien energy takes over Lieutenant Mira Romaine, and the creepy voice, the floating body, and the "you can't have her back, she's ours" menace feel pulled straight from a 1960s Hammer horror film. So is this secretly one of Star Trek's scariest hours? Or does the show waste a great idea by burying the reveal for 40 minutes?

Chapters

  • 00:00: Intro
  • 02:30: Episode Description
  • 02:58: This time in History
  • 06:30: Today’s Episode Discussion

Transcript

Sean Ferrell: In today's episode of Trek in Time, we're talking about flashes of inspiration. Welcome to Trek in Time, everybody. We're watching every episode of Star Trek in chronological stardate order. We're also talking about what was going on in the world at the time of original broadcast. So currently we're in the tail end of the original series. Not season one, not season two. We've made it all the way to season three. Matt, can you believe that we can see the end from here. So we're talking about the 1960s. Well, we're talking about Star Trek. And who are we? Well, I'm Sean Ferrell, I'm a writer. I write some sci fi, I write some horror. As a matter of fact, I have a horror novel coming out in April of 2027. Oh my God, that sounds like the future. It's called in the Fields We Thirst and it's a little horror novel about bad things happening in the war torn fields of World War I. I hope people will be interested in checking that out. With me, as always, is my brother Matt. He is that Matt behind Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives. So between Matt with the tech and me with the fiction, we've got Star Trek. How are you doing, Matt?

Matt Ferrell: I'm good, how about you?

Sean Ferrell: I'm doing okay. It's summer, it is muggy. And to make the recording work well, I've got all the fans, I've got the dehumidifier, I've got the air conditioning all off. So if by the end of this episode I look like I need medical help, get me medical help. So today we're going to be talking about the Lights of Zetar, which is originally broadcast on January 31, 1969. It is the 73rd episode produced. It is the 73rd aired overall. It is the 18th of the third season. Originally directed by Herb Kenwith, written by Jeremy Tarcher and Shari Lewis. The guest actors in this one, the main one we're going to talk about, there's a couple people in the background that we would recognize like Lieutenant Kyle John Winston, he's a familiar face. But mainly we're going to be talking about Jan Shutan as Lieutenant Mira Romaine. So we'll be talking about her quite a bit. And of course we have all of the original cast members, all the way from Kirk all the way down to Majel Barrett. Yes, Christine Chappell is in this episode. Look forward to talking about them. And I also look forward to talking about how we've talked about it a number of different times, how Strange New Worlds reinforms this show. And this is an episode where I think we're going to bring that up occasionally. So those lights you see, those sounds you hear. Yes, it's the read alert. It's time for Matt to tackle the Wikipedia description, as has been the trend for season three. Buckle up, it's a long one. Okay.

Matt Ferrell: Strange energy based alien life forms threatened the Memory Alpha Station and the Enterprise crew.

Sean Ferrell: Maybe not as long as I remembered. Anyway, we're going to be talking about that in a few minutes, but first we're going to take a look at the world at the time of original broadcast. As I mentioned before, January 31, 1969. What were we shaking our tails to with? Well, Matt and I weren't born yet. I know you're looking at the gray beard and you're saying, how's that even possible? Trust me, I wasn't born yet. So people other than us were dancing along to yes, Matt, you guessed it, they were still dancing to I Heard it through the Grapevine by Marvin Gaye. I know you enjoy singing this, but please keep it to just a few bars. Take it away, Matt. Good. And at the movies. Well, Matt, I found myself a little disappointed to say once again, the number one film, Funny Girl, Barbra Streisand, Omar Sharif. I've mentioned this one before because it was number one for a good solid six weeks. We haven't mentioned it the past few weeks because we had Bullet showing up occasionally and a little movie called Candy which nobody had heard of. But Funny Girl was back at the top spot this week. We've also been looking at the various shows that were at the top of the ratings list for 1969 as compared to Star Trek. This episode of Star Trek is a bump up. It gets a little bit over an eight in the Nielsens. But in comparison, Rowan and Martin's Laugh in, which was the number one show for 1969, was getting a 26. So you could see why Star Trek was on its way out. Not due to its anything that was wrong with it. Of course. We're talking about a show that had its budget slashed in half every season it was in existence. So at this point in season three, they're barely, they're barely getting anything. And that's why we're seeing limited number of extras and limited scenes in places where they would have had to build a new set. But in comparison to that, we have.

We've talked about the top four shows. So far at number five on the list for 1969 is a show we did talk about a couple of years ago, Matt, Family Affair. I don't know if you remember what this one is about, but it is, of course, in the trend of uplifting 1960s sitcom settings. That's right, it involves death. Family Affair is an American sitcom starring Brian Keith and Sebastian Cabot. It aired on CBS from 1966 to 1971. The series explored the trials and well to do of well to do engineer and bachelor Bill Davis as he attempted to raise his brother's orphaned children in his luxury New York City apartment. That's right. Bill Davis is taking care of his dead brother's family. And last week we were talking about Mayberry RFD which also included a man who was a widower raising his children. Yes, in the 1960s, the formula for a family sitcom was kill the mom at the very least and sometimes kill them both. And in the news on this day, January 31, 1961, we're seeing the very first days of the Nixon presidency. And so the headline that I wanted to point out this week, Nixon seeks plan to replace draft with volunteers. Now, I'm not going to give any spoilers. I'm not going to let anybody know how that turns out. But Matt, what do you think? How do you think that'll work out? An all volunteer force going to Vietnam? It's going to be great. Yep. I think it's going to work out perfectly for Nixon and the administration as they try to win a war. They would always remind people we didn't start this one. Now to our discussion of this week's episode, the Lights of Zetar. Matt, I think I started the conversation last week and it largely revolved around our entire conversation would roll around this, this little nugget which was, boy, did we not like that episode. So I'm going to ask you to start us off this week with your thoughts about the Lights of Zetar.

A step up, a step down, or a step sideways. What did you think it was?

Matt Ferrell: I don't think you could get lower than last week's episode. So this is a step up to probably what was like the episodes before the last one. So I guess what you could say is, I did not like this, Sean. I'm finding the end of Star Trek The Original series, these last handful of episodes. Like somebody's taking bamboo shoots and shoving them under my fingernails. I am not. I am not enjoying myself. Sean. Wow, this is hard time. This is an episode. You may like it, but I found this so boring. Just boring. And it's doing something. I've noticed a pattern in the past, like four or five episodes where they will do something like a sequence happens, like a little arc, and they just repeat that arc and they repeat that arc and they repeat that arc for 30 freaking minutes. And then by minute 40, they finally start to move things forward again to hit a conclusion. And what it comes across as. Here's another episode that would have taken 20 minutes, but they stretched it to 45. And it's driving me bonkers because in this episode, there were moments of coolness. There were moments of great character development. There were moments that was like, that's neat. But it was in the middle of just, I don't care what's happening in this episode at all. And it wasn't until minute 40 that they finally started to push forward the story of the aliens and how they were controlling the woman. And it was just, why did they wait for so long to do this? Because they didn't have enough meat on the bones. I just.

Sean Ferrell: Keep DeForrest Kelly's weight out of this. I largely agree with everything you're saying, and I think there's a number of. Just a little bit scattershot. I just want to throw out some things that I want to say. Like, these were things I saw and I understood they were happening, but I don't want to talk about them in any kind of depth. Terribly sexist episode. Boom. Oh, it's horrendous. It's horrendous. It does things that just. Like, they keep calling her a girl. Like, it's just like the girl. The girl. We're going to talk about the girl. We're going to have a. We're going to have a scene about the girl, and she's going to sit at the table and we're all just going to. All the men are going to talk about her, but she's not going to say anything other than that. I liked that scene. I found myself sitting there going, like, this is a really interesting scene. How they're, like, doing all the sciencey stuff to be like, what could possibly be happening? Because we can't wrap our heads around these things. But look at the data. I was like, great sciencey stuff. Let her talk. The repetition that you mentioned, I get the weirdest feeling like. Like somebody. The edict in the writer's room does feel to be like, just create a simple scene arc and we'll just keep repeating it until we've got enough time filmed. Like, it does feel like exactly what you point out. And it doesn't need to be that way because I go back again to something I mentioned a few minutes ago. The funding, I think, is the problem. I think they are literally just shooting first drafts of scripts. I think that they land on good ideas when they get to the 40 minute mark. The stuff about the alien entity here, it being a collection, effectively the life force of, of a collection of aliens that has been diminishing over time and is now down to just a handful of them.

And I found myself thinking that should have been in minute 15. And then the rest of it is ethics of like, can we save this dying civilization? Is there anything we can do? Is there any way to make the. Yeah. Like, is there a moral ground to say? Like, what if she's willing to sacrifice herself? Think about the complexities of the episode. If she had been like, I'm willing to do this. Think about the complexities of the episode. If she had been given some autonomy in this, as opposed to just being literally a body that they're like, we can't let the body be taken. We're going to put her into this hyperbaric chamber. A little more sciency stuff around. Why they think that will work much have been nice because suddenly they have a plan that involves atmospheric pressures. And why? Why? It's not clear. It's like there's a throwaway line as they start putting her in where somebody says, and I think it's McCoy just kind of like thrown in, like, because these alien entities have been in space for so long, they've adapted to space to the point where atmospheric pressure will affect them. I'm like, okay, fine, like, if that's your solution. But again, that should be a scene of sciency stuff that should be built up too. And I just kept going back to it. Felt like the good ideas finally got to the script and then they should have gone to a rewrite where they put all that right at the front and then pull it all forward and pull out attention by giving her autonomy. Giving a question mark to.

Do we just get rid of these aliens? Is there any other option?

Matt Ferrell: I'm going to push back on you a little bit because you said you feel like this is a symptom of the budget cuts. I'm going to be very brutal. I disagree. I think it's a lack of imagination and talent. I think that's what we're seeing. I think we're at the C level tier of script writers at this point in the show's life. The best writers were in season one. The worst writers lasted to the very end. And we're seeing the results of that. It's a lack of imagination. And there was probably an edict around trying to make the show feel action oriented and like things are happening. Yeah. And so they find the loop of that thing happening and they just repeat it, repeat it, repeat it, repeat it. And then they get to the end where the interesting stuff starts happening. And that's the part that would be heady. It would be people in a room talking. It would be them discovering the whole pressure thing. They could have. It could have been a discovery that Bones had. But it's like it takes time and effort and skill and talent and imagination to flesh those things out in a way that would still have that sense of urgency, something happening. But it strikes me as not just a budget cut thing. It seems like it was gotta satisfy the audience. They want something like, you know, ray guns. They want people running around and punching each other. It's like, let's just do that 40 minutes and then we'll just throw in some interesting sci fi stuff at the end. It's like, that's what it comes across to me as. And that doesn't seem like it's just purely a budget cut. A budget cut issue. It's more than that.

Sean Ferrell: I don't disagree with that. I think there's a Venn diagram where you and I could, like our proposed causes could overlap.

Matt Ferrell: Both right at the same time.

Sean Ferrell: Like, they could both be right at the same time. Why? Why don't you have better writers in that writing room? Why is this the C tier? Because your budget was cut and the good ones went off and got other jobs. They're writing for Mission Impossible across the hall. One of the things about this one that stood out to me is something that is an element that we've talked about I don't know how many times. I'm coming to a conclusion that I never anticipated. And it goes all the way back to the very early days of this podcast when we were watching Enterprise. And then it came up again as we were watching things like Discovery and now the original series, Strange New Worlds. Does it. Star Trek is effectively a horror genre. This is a possession story. This is the Exorcist. This is Young woman. This entity takes her over. She begins when she. It becomes the most interesting when she starts speaking. And when she's leaving, that sound, that noise comes out of her mouth. And when she starts talking in the voice of the entities and they are like, you can't have her back. She is ours. Those are literally lines from a Hammer horror movie. Like, think of the Hammer films where it's the 1960s, everything has got the dayglow colors, even though it's horror. And you get the girl who's floating in the air while Dracula is pulling her toward him with hand gestures. And you can't have her back. She's mine. I'm watching this one. I'm like, if this head, like, it hit a certain note for me where I was like, if this was just a little bit better, it would be really, really cool. And it's just too bad they couldn't make it just a little bit better. Like, for me, the sexism is straight up 1969. So I'm like, I'm not.

Matt Ferrell: Oh, yeah, Yeah.

Sean Ferrell: I look at that and I'm like, of course they were going to do that. But the other elements where another draft of the script leaning a little bit more into the sciency stuff, letting the stuff that's revealed at minute 40 be revealed by minute 15 so that we can have some of the more interesting conversations. And they already had so many scenes that, like, this is another one where I'm sitting there and, like, they finally are letting everybody on the bridge talk.

Matt Ferrell: Yes.

Sean Ferrell: Everybody gets to say a line. Everybody's got something to do. Uhura’s like, I'm trying to get through this interference, but I'm getting these weird signals. And Sulu is like, oh, my gosh, this thing is like, I can't fly away from this thing. He gets more lines in this episode than I think he's gotten in a season. And, yeah, it's great. Like, I had no, like, no problem with Sulu other than the one line where he's like, I don't think Scotty knows she has a brain. Like, okay, let's not.

Matt Ferrell: They undercut themselves constantly. Like, you mentioned the whole. Like, you brought up how the sound she makes. The horror aspect, I thought was extremely well done. There were moments in this show that were like, ooh, that's really creepy. That's really kind of cool. I don't know. It's kind of like, you know, the old horror movies of, like, don't go in the basement, and the character goes in the basement. There'd be no reason for that character to actually do what they're doing, but they're doing it because it's pushing the plot forward. There's elements of that in here where it was just the. She goes, she's on the planet. She says, we got to get out of here. It's coming back. They're like, what are you talking about? It's coming back. It's coming back. It's going to kill us. Got to get out of here. So they go back onto the ship, and then later she has that vision of the future, like she envisioned it, and tells Scotty. And Scotty gaslights her and tells her, oh, no, deario. Little girl.

Sean Ferrell: Boy, does he. Yeah, it's all in your head. It's all you, silly. You've got space madness.

Matt Ferrell: In the realm of, like, we just talked about, there are moments where every character has a line and every character is in here. I would say not all the characters are represented well at all. And so that scene where Scotty talks her out of telling the captain what she experienced makes zero sense for the Scotty that we've gotten to know up until this point. And two, they were on the planet with her when she said, it's coming back. It's gonna kill everybody. How did she know? She clearly has a connection to this thing. And the fact that he's saying, don't tell the captain that you're having visions of this thing. They already know. They saw it firsthand.

Sean Ferrell: Yeah.

Matt Ferrell: So everybody would already be thinking this. And the fact that they were pretending like, oh, that didn't happen. This is the separate little thing we're having now made no sense to me. Which is why in the end, when Scotty tells her, you got to tell the captain about what you were saying, and she tells him, and Captain Kirk looks a little upset, like, why didn't you tell me? Again, in the back of my head was, Kirk, dude. You were on the planet with her when she said, it's coming back. And you were like, no, it's not. And then they got the beam down call of like, hey, it's coming back. And you're like, how did you know you knew this? Like, you all experienced it. It's like they all went into a collective amnesia of what they experience just for the plot to move forward. And to have these moments of a character not telling another character something, it made no sense. And so the characters were behaving in a way that was not true to their character. So, yes, every character uttered words, but they uttered meaningless, stupid words that really didn't advance anything for the characters that we knew. And it felt wrong that Scotty was doing that. It didn't feel like him to me when that whole sequence.

Sean Ferrell: I agree. And it goes to a bit of a truth about writing that I occasionally still have to rediscover But I discovered it in very grand ways years ago. Probably my second novel, which is man in the Empty Suit, which of course is a time travel loopy, loopy, loopy thing. I hit a point when I was writing that where I was like, I can't withhold from the audience at all. I get more traction out of telling them everything as soon as it logically comes up. And then there's more playground when everybody's on the same page and everybody knows everything that the people on the page know, as opposed to, oh, I need to keep this secret. And I feel like this screen, this screenplay falls into that trap of, well, we can't let anybody know that these are alien entities that exist only because they somehow survived an apocalyptic end to their world and they are now looking for a new host in which to live. We got it. That's the big reveal. We can't tell anybody. And that creates all the kinds of weird logic loopholes and anti character moments because you're trying to protect the secret, you're trying to protect the threat. Like, how can she have this connection? Like, like I keep saying, by minute 15, everybody should have been like, these alien entities that want to find a new host. They think Lt. Romaine can be that host. Oh, my God. And then you think about, like, what story comes out of that. It's one that's engaging, it's interesting, and it still has the horror elements of. She can still have like the creepy voice come out. They can still say things like, you can't have her back. She's ours now. You can still have. When Kirk is like, I'm gonna see if I can talk to them because now they're in her and I can, I can have conversations with them. I'm like, that's probably the closest that we've seen Kirk get to being Picard. And he. And it's a good scene.

And imagine if we had had like three scenes like that where he keeps going back in and arguing. Imagine a version of this where he goes in and he realizes during a conversation he's not speaking to the same entity he was before because there's multiple of them and some of them are surfacing. And then you get a multiple personality thing going on where maybe he's convincing one this isn't okay, and he doesn't know which one that is. And he's going in. He's just like, I hope I can get back to Bob, because Bob was on my side. So. So, like, you end up with opportunities if you big make that big reveal. How do we deal with this dilemma as opposed to the mistake of the dilemma is the big shocker. That's one of my big complaints about a lot of the M. Night Shyamalan films. He used a twist in a way that was really masterful in one movie. And then he's tried to recreate that and everything else.

And it's to varying degrees of success. Because sometimes the reveal isn't enough to let logic gaps kind of like trip along for an entire movie. I agree with you. The formula that they keep landing on, it tends to me to appear to be like, we got to keep the secret because the secrets is going to be exciting at the end. Like, no, Nobody gives a crap by minute 40. Nobody is going to be excited to find out that these lights are alien entities. We would have been excited at minute 10 or 15, and then at minute 40 to see Kirk finally have a breakthrough or the last ditch attempt doesn't work. And, like, the last thing we want to do is put this woman into this atmospheric chamber and potentially crush her. Yet we have to. How do we do this? And to have a scene where, like, one of the things that stood out to me is her being in that chamber was another bunch of horror motifs because she's literally floating. So it has that kind of possessed, possessed young woman floating above the bed. Like, it's got all those things going for it. It's just the words that are coming out of everybody's mouth. Felt to me like it was almost in the wrong order. Like, if you took the screenplay and flipped it and all the reveal was at the beginning, then you can have all the cool stuff that you had. And Sulu can be saying, like, I can't get away from these lights. And you get Scotty, who's like, I love her, even though we'll never see her again. Like, it's fine that he was in love with her. Just don't gaslight her. That's not okay.

Matt Ferrell: It's kind of sad because this is 1969 and the sexism. If it had been a male character, I could have seen them telling the story more from her or his point of view, and it would have been more horrific of him losing control of himself and the descent into madness. And I can just see them focusing on that more. But for a woman in 1969, they're not gonna do that. They're not gonna do that. There's two things. Sean, this is gonna highlight for you what I thought of this episode. The two things I found hysterical to me. Cause I'm just laughing in my head. Is there was a sequence where they're all kind of rushing in action. The whole ship is like in motion. And they're running on a hallway and there's like a thousand people in the hallway. And they're all doing different things and running different places. And there's this one dude who looks like he's cranking the hell out of the wall.

Sean Ferrell: Art on the wall.

Matt Ferrell: It's like he's doing this cranking motion. What looks like it's supposed to be something that turns on the wall, but it's not turning. And you can tell he's just pantomiming it. He is acting his heart out, fake turning this thing on the wall. And the camera goes by him this way and he's doing it. And then the camera goes the other way and he's still doing it. And he. He runs. I'm like, you go, buddy. You go. Was the first thing in my mind. And then later, when she's in the

Sean Ferrell: pressure chamber, he's the crank turner. Yeah, exactly.

Matt Ferrell: It's like, what are you cranking, dude? Why do you have to do that?

Sean Ferrell: I have one guy, she's in the

Matt Ferrell: pressure chamber and they're cranking up the pressure. And Kirk yells at one moment, I don't know if this happened to you. He yells more pressure. In a way, all I thought in my head was I heard Billy Joel kick into gear pressure in the back of my head during that scene. And it ruined the entire ending of the episode for me.

Sean Ferrell: Oh, that's very funny.

Matt Ferrell: Yeah.

Sean Ferrell: That final scene included a lot of static shots of people where it was like, we need to increase the pressure. And then I don't know if you felt like you could do a super cut of that and turn it into a 30 minute long super cut of just over and over again of like Spock going, I'm going to increase it just a little bit. And then Dr. McCoy and then Kirk yelling, pressure. And then the girl's floating and then Spock is. I'm going to increase it just a little bit. And they reuse the same footage of Spock every single time because the dial doesn't move. But I will also add this based on the numbers that they show on screen. She is under so much pressure.

Matt Ferrell: She was.

Sean Ferrell: She would have been pulp. It would have been like Scotty would have gone over to that little window to look at her and give her the thumbs up and let her know that he loves her. And he would have looked in there. And it would have been just been red mist filling that room. Because at one point I think it hits 30 atmospheres before they stop showing numbers. And I'm just like, 30 atmospheres. Okay, so you're saying that you're putting her through all of that and then McCoy's like, you're going to be okay in there, little girl, because you're going to be in there for about 20 minutes. I'm like, 20 minutes. People who go deep sea diving sometimes have to spend hours, days. Like, it's one thing to say, like, it's the future. They can do anything because it's the future. No, you can't. It's a human body. Technology is not going to be able to. Like, thanks to technology, we can now decompress a human body that's been under deep, deep sea level of pressure in five minutes. Like, no, that's not what can happen. It's a human body. It's going to take as long as it's going to take. And you just said she was under 30 atmospheres of pressure. What do we have to do to get these aliens out of here? I don't know. Maybe put her on Jupiter.

Matt Ferrell: Great. Him looking in the window. And then the window suddenly just turns red.

Sean Ferrell: She goes. Just goes. As she. Like, she would implode. She would, she would. It would be the most horrific. You want to talk about horror? It would probably be the most horrific depict of the crushing of a human body. As Scotty is looking through there and just going, hang on, Lassie, you're gonna be right as rain. No, you're not being crushed. Like, it just. It reached a point of absurdity for me.

Matt Ferrell: Yes, it's happening.

Sean Ferrell: Yeah. I was like. I was like, if you're gonna show that compression chamber, most of the kids watching at home, if you just say, we're gonna have to put it under tremendous pressure. Show us a dial that doesn't have any numbers. Show us a dial that just like, has a red line way at the bottom. And Spock goes. And it goes up and they're like, you're gonna need more. Oh, no, she might die. Like, why give us a number that anybody with a brain is gonna say, like, wait, you're doing what to her?

Matt Ferrell: How.

Sean Ferrell: How many pressures? How many atmospheres? That poor girl. That poor girl. I will end on this note. I like this one so much more than the previous weeks. So, like, you take everything I just said, and yet I feel like this one is head and shoulders above that previous one. And for me, this had Glimpses of why we like Star Trek. I watched it and I saw all the same stuff you did. And I was like, this one feels like Spock is Spocking. This one feels like Bones. I was going to say Bones is boning, but I'm not going to say that.

Matt Ferrell: Don't say that.

Sean Ferrell: I'm not gonna say that. That would be a great setup to a joke. This one feels like Chekhov is Chekhoving. This one feels like Spock is Spocking. This one feels like Bones is boop. Like cut. To pardon our dust, We've got some repairs we gotta do. This one feels like Star Trek to me. Whereas last week it felt like. Did a bunch of people just kind of hijack the studio and force all the actors say certain lines while they've filmed them?

Matt Ferrell: Like last week. I apologize to everybody listening to the show. I'm sorry. If you watch this, I'm not gonna say that this week. I don't feel that way about this week's. This week's did have some. I did get some enjoyment out of it. So it's. It's not a complete train wreck.

Sean Ferrell: So, viewers, listeners, what did you think? Jump into the comments and let us know. We really look forward to hearing what you have to say. We didn't have any comments in this episode. Matt and I are on a very regular recording schedule. Having said that, I have no idea why. Sometimes when we record, we have comments, other times we record, we don't have comments.

Matt Ferrell: We've missed a bunch of weeks.

Sean Ferrell: Right? But it has to do with the release schedule and the recording schedule. So there will be a point where these two things will line up and we'll have the comments. But just to let you all know, we want the comments. We love hearing what you have to say about the show. We always like to include those. It just so happened this week we're recording and we didn't have any new ones to share because the episode hadn't released yet. So jump into the comments. Let us know what you had to say. Liking, subscribing, sharing with your friends and commenting are all very easy ways for you to support the podcast. We appreciate all of those. If you want to support us directly, you can go to trekintime.Show. Click the join button there. Not only does that allow you to throw coins at our heads, but it also signs you up for Out of Time, which is our spin off podcast in which we talk about things that don't fit within the confines of this program. As a matter of fact, we are going to record an episode of that right now. So if you're interested, we hope you'll check it out by subscribing through trekintime.Show. Thank you so much, everybody. Thanks again for watching or listening, and we'll talk to you next time.