Matt and Sean talk about the best horror Star Trek has ever filmed, in Star Trek SNW Season 4, Episode 2, "The Griffin Incident." A derelict Federation ship, a baby crying down a dark hallway, and a crew that stops trusting its own eyes. Matt reaches for Solaris and The Thing, Sean reaches for Event Horizon, and they agree the landing sticks. Also in the mailbag: the Voth, dinosaurs, and one very wrong answer involving Peter Griffin.

Order Sean’s next book, “In the Fields We Thirst” here: https://undecided.link/in-the-fields-we-thirst

Chapters

  • 00:00: Intro
  • 01:42: Mailbag
  • 05:31: Episode Description & This Time in History
  • 08:57: Today’s Discussion

Transcript

Intro

Sean Ferrell: Today on Trek in Time, we're talking about Boogie, boogie, boogie. That's right. We're talking about the Griffin incident. This is an episode of Strange New Worlds that dropped on July 30, 2026. Welcome, everybody, to Trek in Time. This is the podcast that takes a look at Star Trek in chronological stardate order. We also take a look at the world at the time of the original broadcast. Normally, we're talking about stuff that came out years ago, sometimes even decades ago. We're currently almost all the way through the original. We're partially like, I think we're five episodes away from being done with season three, which means that we're going to turn the corner and go into the motion pictures and then from there, Next Generation. But right now we're taking a break from the original series rewatch to talk about episodes that are dropping literally now by talking about Strange New Worlds. Today, we're going to be talking about episode two of season four, the Griffin Incident. Who are we? Well, I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm a writer. I write some horror, I write some sci fi. Those two things are going to come in handy today, I think. As a matter of fact, I have a book coming out in 2027, In the Fields We Thirst. It's a horror novel and I've written sci fi previously, so I feel like I'm prepped for this episode. With me, as always, is my brother Matt. He is that Matt behind Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives. Doesn't have much horror, but it certainly has a lot of tech. How are you doing, Matt? Matt Ferrell: Doing good. I'm actually really excited for this one. Like one of my favorite movies of all time is the thing this episode. Sean, not to give it away, scratched an itch. I was very happy for it.

Mailbag

Sean Ferrell: Scratched an itch for me as well. So I'm looking forward to talking about it too. As usual, before we lean into the discussion about the new episode that we're going to talk about, we like to take a look at what you've had to say about previous episodes. So what have you found in the mailbag this week, Matt? Matt Ferrell: Well, there was a lot of feedback, Sean, on the. It was the first episode of this new Strange New World season. You and I, just a refresher. Did not like that first episode very much. You hated it more than I did and I did not like it. We had asked if people did like this, what did they like about it? There was a bunch of people that actually said, eh, it was not great, but I enjoyed it. There was a bunch of feedback around that. Some of the feedback we got was from, like, Happy Flappy Farm. We enjoyed the episode. We came into the new season without expectations other than seeing the cast again and being entertained. You bring up good points. We are watching ahead and understand the groundwork laid by the interactions between Erica and Scotty. My question is, what happens with Uhura and the Vulcan newbie? The new episode will blow your mind, Sean. No spoilers. I don't know how I will watch it again. Not my scene. I'll go watch Subspace Rhapsody instead. Okay. Sean Ferrell: Good teaser. Matt Ferrell: That's another one of our favorites. Then we had Babarudra. Not a bad episode, but I agree that so much more could have been done with it. The philosophical debate that was right in front of them, that could have been interesting. Swing and a miss on the whole. But there isn't a fifth planet. Yeah, no shite. But you know that there's an asteroid belt in your time and it isn't there now. Think, people. Sean Ferrell: Yeah.

Matt Ferrell: This episode was lacking where many of the original series episodes were lacking. It felt like the writers were so preoccupied whether they could make a dinosaur episode that they didn't stop to think if they should have made it. Sean Ferrell: Well played. Matt Ferrell: And not to nitpick, too late. But how the f did they travel through time and wind up late years away? The Enterprise is not the Tardis. And Nerd alert. Unless the star system they were exploring in their modern time was in the same position in space that the Sol system was in during the Cretaceous period. But that seems more like a conversation for out of time. Sean Ferrell: That's. I mean, that's. All of that is true. Happy Flappy Farms is right. That. Yeah. If you go into this, it can be a fun episode and it's fine. Yeah. It just didn't land the right way with me or with you. Sounds like Babarudra landed in our camp, but a little closer, maybe to Happy Flappy. Like, there's no wrong response to this. Yeah. Thank you so much for all that feedback. That's terrific. Matt Ferrell: There's two more. Sean Ferrell: Yep. Matt Ferrell: One from PaleGhost69. It's short, it's sweet, and it had me laughing. You know what disappointed me most about this? They had the Voth backstory right there. Do you remember the Voth, Sean? Sean Ferrell: No, I don't remember the Vorth. Matt Ferrell: They were a dinosaur humanoid species from the Delta Quadrant that originally came from Earth, Right? Sean Ferrell: Yeah.

Matt Ferrell: When he brought that up, I was like. I was laughing because I was like, I completely forgot about the Voth. And clearly the writers did too, because they had it right there Sean. And then finally, wrong answers only. Mark Loveless Plot of the Griffin Incident in an attempt to do another animated series crossover, Stewie ends up creating a time portal and his dad Peter Griffin pops onto the Enterprise. Likely to be considered one of the worst episodes from a Star Trek Strange New Worlds fan perspective. The episode is so widely viewed that ratings drastically increase, helping to secure Star Trek's continued growth. To which JCEgbert5 wrote. And Peter and Stewie are dressed up as Mercer and Malloy. Sean Ferrell: Given the Trekkie that Seth MacFarlane is, that could actually happen. Like he would be into that. And I can't say that I would be disappointed to see an episode in which that did happen. That could be pretty amazing. Thank you so much everybody for those thoughts. Mark, thank you for the wrong answers only. I look forward to the next one as well. But first, those flashing lights, those alarms you hear. Yes, it's the read alert. It's time for Matt to tackle the Memory Alpha description. Take it away, Matt.

Episode Description & This Time in History

Matt Ferrell: Spock, La'an and Kirk board a lost Federation ship where an old mystery becomes a survival crisis.

Sean Ferrell: That's right. This episode originally broadcast on July 30, 2026. What was the world like at the time of broadcast? Well, Matt, put on your Wayback Machine hat to go way back to last month where you will revisit the number one song. That's right, it's the Weeknd's Blinding Lights. Take it away, Matt. Good fun fact about blinding lights, Matt. This is. I think we just live in an era now where this is going to happen. I'm talking about the number one song. What do I mean by that? I'm relying on Spotify. It's basically like I rely on that only because I have a Spotify account. I could have picked some other streaming service and I simply look for what was the most streamed song on a given day. We are living in an interesting era. Those of us who grew up listening to the radio, you had no control over what was played on the radio. So they would say, here's the number one hit of the week. And it would be whatever was selling well, whatever was climbing the charts. We live in a new era where apparently a movie or a TV show that can have a song that suddenly catches fire and reinvigorates it brings music back from, in some cases, decades ago. There have been some songs that have been 40 years old that came back to climb the charts simply because they appeared in a TV show or movie. So Blinding Lights is one of those. This song is from 2019. I do not know what movie or TV show it appeared in that put it back into people's minds and brought it back to the number one spot on Spotify searches. But here it is a seven year old song. The number one song of July 30, 2026. And at the movies it was yet again Christopher Nolan's the Odyssey at the number one spot. This film has obviously had great, great success. It over a billion dollars. Having recently seen it in 70 millimeter here in New York City, I gotta say I can see why. I enjoyed it very much.

Matt, have you seen it yet? Matt Ferrell: Not yet. It's still on my list to see.

Sean Ferrell: It's quite a piece of art really, really do recommend it. And the number one streaming program on July 30, 2026 on Netflix, it's the Idaho College Murders. This is a three part true crime documentary series released on Netflix on July 29, 2026. This is of course the story of from a few years ago, a case of a man who killed some people who were Idaho State University students in their off campus housing. And in the news on this day, July 30, 2026, the number one story, the front page story of the New York times. Fauci invokes Fifth Amendment more than 100 times in bitter Senate hearing, Senator Rand Paul said the committee he leads would vote next week on whether to hold Dr. Fauci in contempt of Congress. This is the result of needing to look for somebody to blame for how we responded to the COVID pandemic in 2020. And Dr. Fauci is at the top of the list of people that certain people in Congress would like to blame for. I'm not even sure what.

Today's Discussion

Sean Ferrell: On now to our discussion about this episode, the Griffin incident. I know you've been excited to talk about it, but I just want to say a few things at the top and then I'll throw it to you very quickly. I think this is the best example of a perfect bottle episode. You don't add any sets and we've seen this so many times on the original series where strange. We just found a duplicate of the Enterprise and we're going to walk around on this ship and it's ghostly and it's weird. In fact, we talked about it an episode just recently where Kirk found himself in what looked like a completely empty Enterprise, only to realize it was an exact duplicate that had been made on a planet that was so overcrowded, that they were looking for disease in which to cull the overpopulated world. So this one is like that. It's a bottle episode. You end up with the opportunity to say, like, we're going to do these things.

We're not going to build new sets. We're going to have to use only a handful of our regular cast members. There's not going to be a lot of guest stars. You almost feel like this could have been shot in a weekend. What great results. Leaning into a thing that you and I stumbled into during our rewatch of Enterprise, where way back when we said, is Star Trek actually a horror show? Here we have an episode that week one did not care for the dinosaurs. I did not care for the lack of logic in the timey wimey ness. I did not care for what felt like characters being kind of daft about picking up on things that were very obvious and then beating the audience over the head with those details to make sure we wink, wink, got it. This episode, you mentioned the Thing a few minutes ago. For me, this is Event Horizon. This is. We've gone to a place. It's the creaky door. It's the haunted house. It's the thing that shouldn't be quite the way it is, and we can't figure out what it is. And what's that noise down the hallway for them to lean into things like a crying baby down a hall. Nothing creepier than a crying baby down a dark hallway. It's like those little touches of just classic haunted house storytelling. For me, this was an absolute home run. I loved this episode. So I throw it to you. You've been so excited about this. You watched it before I did. Well, before I did.

How did you hold onto your excitement about this one and not reveal to me, like, what it's about? Because I went into it without you having told me a thing, and I appreciated that. Matt Ferrell: I'm not a horror fan. Like, I don't go seeking out horror movies, but there are horror movies that kind of, like, go beyond the genre. Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Matt Ferrell: You understand what I mean? Like, they're so good. It's like, even if you're not a horror fan, they're gonna resonate with you. And those are the kind of movies I love. Like, the thing you brought up, Event Horizon, which is a great example of this. But for me, in my notes when this episode was in, like, 10 minutes in, I wrote down, goddamn, this is Solaris. Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Matt Ferrell: Have you ever seen that movie? Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Matt Ferrell: It's like, it's that movie, it's sunshine. It's that movie too. It's like slowly going insane in space and you're not sure you can believe what you're seeing anymore. And it's that horror trope. It's been done a dozen different times. Really good examples of it all over film. But this was executed so Chef's Kiss perfectly. I've never seen Star Trek do horror this well. This felt like any modern horror movie that we've seen over the past few years. And there's been some good ones that have been coming out recently. Whereas that shot down a hallway and it's really dark. You're looking at the main character in the foreground. But then a shadow moves. Sean Ferrell: Yeah.

Matt Ferrell: And it's like the shadow was there the entire time. Which means whatever that thing was, was there that whole time. And it just moved. And you can feel your hair is kind get extended on your arms and the back of your neck. It's like. It's that creepy horror that this episode did so well. And it got me so excited. And halfway into the episode, I was like, what are they going to do to screw this up? What are they going to do to screw this up? Because they've done such a great establishing of the horror and how the story was unfolding. And the thing that stuck with me, Sean, was they stuck the landing. In my opinion, they stuck the landing. It's like the whole episode, start to finish, it ended in a perfect place. And part of what resonated with me was you said it's a great bottle episode. Yes. And it did a great job with the character development of, like La'an in the entire story. Like, they've set up this thing where she's. Her augmentations. What she is might be coming to the surface in a way that she could potentially lose control. That's what she's terrified of. Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Matt Ferrell: The fact she. She hit the dinosaur and didn't feel the pain. All that kind of stuff. I love how they're building that aspect of her fear over what she might be become or what she actually is. That was this entire episode. And it was just a beautiful exploration of a woman that feels like she's losing control of herself. Sean Ferrell: Yeah.

Matt Ferrell: At the end she lost control of herself because she stabbed. She stabbed Kirk. She almost murdered somebody. I'm curious to see what they're going to do with her over the coming episodes because they're driving her into a really dark place. How is she going to grapple with what she did in this episode and everybody else in the episode's like, it wasn't your fault. It's gonna haunt her. Everything about this was just great character development. And it was also just beautiful horror storytelling. And the filmmaking was just top notch. The long shots that start to make you feel uncomfortable, this is lingering longer than it probably should, which means I'm supposed to be noticing something in the frame, what is going wrong. And then you hear the sound of the baby crying in the background. They did a wonderful job of playing with editing, timing and the sound effects and the shot angles and every character having their own unique insanity taking hold. Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Matt Ferrell: Like with Kirk and the baby, because he's haunted by the fact. And that's the other thing. It helps reframe Kirk's whole history for me because here you have David from the movies and he gets killed. His wife from Star Trek ii. It was like they're. They're not wife, but they're estranged. Yeah. And she wanted nothing. David to do nothing with him because he's so obsessed with his work. And so he was like this absent father. And you see Kirk not wanting to be an absent father and you see why he became one and it's just like, oh my God, the framing that it gave Kirk and how it fleshed that out was so beautiful. I just love that it didn't detract from any of the Star Trek movies or the original series. It made it even more powerful. And now I'm so excited to watch Star Trek ii. Sean. I'm so excited to watch him like, come in contact with his son again and like, remember this episode.

Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Awesome stuff. This reframes so many things and it does such a great job. And you've tied it through to the movies and there's other opportunities to tie some of this stuff to some of the other movies as well. I completely agree with the La'an stuff. This episode is such a good bottle episode because if they never picked up on any of these storylines again, it wouldn't be a problem. And if they do, it's not a problem. It is, you know, the best example of a bottle episode is like, it's self contained and continues an arc if it wants to. What will they do with La'an? That question comes to mind. And you're right. The depiction of the conversation she's having with the ghostly spirit that she's talking with and of course the connection she feels to this person. Just like I've been feeling similar things of like, concerns of like seeing a problem and not being able to identify the solution for It. And then it reaches that point of like, no, this is madness. And you're falling into the madness and finding herself. Blink, and she's in the alternate position. She's the attacker, not the defender. The stuff with Kirk, I agree with you completely. I loved all of that. I felt like it did a thing with David where it turns David into this. In order to not disappoint David, I have to abandon David when he talks to his brother, when he and Sam talk. And I loved those scenes. And they've done something neat with the actor who plays Sam. Over the first couple of seasons, Sam just looked like Sam, however that actor was gonna look. But they've brought them both into. Now they have the same haircut. It's like they figured out a way to, like, let's lean into the fact that Shatner played both of these roles in the TV series. When you see Sam is dead, he is Shatner with a mustache. So they did this great job with this guy and just saying, like, look at them.

They look alike. They look like they could be brothers. And their conversations around, like, yeah, remember those little tchotchkes dad used to bring home? Remember how he thought it would, like, make up for his not being there? And I remember more about the excuses than I do times that I spent with him. It waking up James T. Kirk to the fact, like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do that to my kid. And I. So I will not. Did you interpret the final scene the way I did, which is he is calling Carol to talk to her about this, and she is never going to answer. Matt Ferrell: I didn't want to cry, but it was just like, oh, it was so tragic because, like, you knew this is exactly. He's trying to reach out and say, I want to change, but he's already. It's too late. She's already said, you're. I'm done. Sean Ferrell: You're out. Yeah, Spock. This show has done things with that character I never would have anticipated. Somebody very smart was in the writers room very early on in this series because they were like, if we're gonna have Spock in here, he has to have an arc. He has to have evolution. We can't just have Spock be the Spock from the series. And they've gone into this thing with him where at the end of last season, they established this kind of open relationship that he has with La’an. He's still engaged, but clearly he is not feeling in any way compelled to make that marriage happen. And he has this relationship with La’an. And he is, for all intents and purposes, acting very human. You know, from season two through three. And now him really like, kind of like, I've got this relationship. He acts very human around La'an.

Sean Ferrell: He's kind of jokey and he has a little smirk a lot of the time. In my head, I've lately been like, how are they going to build a bridge to the Spock we know from the original series? Who in the Spock, in the original series is very much a. I'm not quite interested in all this. There is the original pilot in which we see Spock smile. They did a great job of establishing that as like, well, here's that Spock, he is acting more human in the past. There are these changes that he's going to go through for this episode to be one which, as you mentioned, connects a dotted line to the movies in the form of David and Kirk's relationship with his son. For me, this drew a dotted line between the Spock, as we see all the way through the original series, the Spock who is trying to be more Vulcan, all the way to the motion picture in which we see Spock has been going through the process to completely excise his human emotional side. He is in. In the motion picture, he is trying to do away with it and has turned himself into such a cold, analytical machine that when he returns to the ship, everybody on the ship doesn't quite know why is Spock acting so weird. They are put off by the fact that he has been doing this. Uhura, for me, in this episode, like, she is a through line now to all of that is like, she's known Spock longer than Kirk has. So for me, I found myself watching this when he has been cutting off his own ears. And I'm thinking, like, Uhura is the one person on that ship who, when he shows up in the motion picture, she's going to be the one person who's just like, this isn't the Spock I was friends with. What has he done to himself? Who has he become? The compelling layers that they are putting in into a horror episode, as you said, this is the best horror they've ever done. I would also argue this is just straight up a good horror story.

You could show this to somebody who likes horror and say, like, do you want to watch some horror that's based in Star Trek? And I think they would enjoy this because not only is it creepy boogie woogie in the background, like, wait a minute, was that a shadow that just moved? Wait a minute. Was that a human figure in that silhouette in that doorway when it comes time to say, like, and we're now not going to pull punches, Pike cutting off his own fingers? Matt Ferrell: Yes. Sean Ferrell: I was like, I have. When I cook, I have a standing waking nightmare in my own head that is like, what would happen if I cut myself that badly? Like, I will be cutting something and think, oh, watch your fingers. And so we're watching this episode and I'm just like, oh, my God, they put it right on screen. And he is gleefully getting ready to cook a terrific meal and doesn't stop staring directly at Spock. I was like, this is. This is some heavy, heavy stuff they're putting into a TV series. Matt Ferrell: Spock getting strapped down and having his ears cut and all that stuff was graphic. It was horrific. It was like body horror. It was really unnerving to watch. And as it's happening in my head, I'm thinking, she's not really there. So is he doing this to himself? And at the end, when it comes out that he was doing to himself, I'm like, oh, dear God. Sean Ferrell: He's sitting there just sawing the horizon of it all. Yeah. Woo. Matt Ferrell: Yes.

Sean Ferrell: That was. It was like watching him do that and the screams and the reasoning behind it, it's all because it's pulled from him. So, like, I'm sitting there and she's like, you're almost perfect, except you have too much Vulcan in you. Let's get it out of here. This moment is why he's just like, you know what? I don't think I can be human. I think I need to be Vulcan. Brilliant. And then to go back to Kirk's brother, that death sequence again, did not back away from, like, what could we do? Oh, how about this? Showing his body floating through space, spinning end over end as the frozen parts of him that are now behind him, like, come on, like, what are you doing to us? Matt Ferrell: Yeah. If they had done this in the 1960s, that sequence, it would just been like the airlock. He goes flying off the airlock or the window breaks and he goes flying out. The thing. The fact that it was like, oh, there's gonna be a puncture hole. He's gonna get stuck to the puncture hole and then slowly get pulled out of it. That's like what you see in Event Horizon or Solaris or some other rated R sci fi horror movie. And here we are watching it on Paramount plus streaming. Like, this is Star Trek, which is supposed to be for, like, the whole family. I can't believe they're doing it around kids. I appreciate it.

Sean Ferrell: I like. The episode did not have a disclaimer at the beginning that I remember. No, it didn't say, like, no, some of this might not be appropriate for all viewers. Last week they had. It was dinosaurs, kids with a story that you and I talked about as this feels dumbed down to the point where it is almost like, let's make one for the kids and then this one follows it. And I'm just like, somebody. What was the decision making process there? Hey, kids, we know you like dinosaurs. Here's a bunch of dinosaurs. And it turns out they were on Earth the whole time. And now a man's intestines are going to get pulled out of his back through a hole in the side of the ship. Like, what? No, no, you can't do both those things. Matt Ferrell: Last week, that's why I said to you, like, you were concerned about this is setting the tone for the season. You were nervous about where this is going to go. And I said, I remember. Sean Ferrell: You were like, don't worry about it. Matt Ferrell: Don't worry. It's way better. Yeah, yeah.

Sean Ferrell: And to go into, you know, the question marks in the episode as far as, like, did I sit there and puzzle through the logic of who was actually on the ship and who wasn't and when did people get there and where were they actually and how did that all play out? I didn't bother doing that in the way that I did the previous episode. The logic, the tiny wimey ness, like, why are they where they are? Because this episode did something that the previous episode did not do. It was so well told, it didn't make me feel like I needed to figure out if the logic holds up. Whereas the first episode of the season felt like it had such gaps that it invited you to say, wait a minute, does this make any sense? It goes back to a truth for me in storytelling that if the telling is good enough, you can pretty much do what you want, even if somehow some lines don't fully connect. Because if the telling is that good people will get into the vehicle with you and ride wherever you want to take them. The wheels feel like they're wobbly and it's not getting them there in the right way. People are going to start saying, like, wait a minute, what am I in? What are we doing here? Is this working? And this episode, for me, like, I have a feeling if I went back and did rewatch it from just a perspective of like, okay, who is where? And does it all logically add up. I have a feeling it would, but I don't feel the compelling need to say, like, I'm going to go back and double check because I want to pick apart the loopholes. Like, I don't need to know if there are loopholes. The story is so well told. I'm just like, yeah, you're telling me this great stuff about these characters in a way that they could pick up some of these things. I imagine they will pick up stuff about Spock, they will pick up stuff about La'an, but we might not see another episode in which Kirk is talking about being a father. We don't necessarily need to. This may have been the one they knew they needed to put in here to say, yeah, everybody knows about David and everybody knows he's out there. And that was a part of the background between him and La'an originally where he was just like, I'm really attracted to you, but I got this thing. And now they've kind of like wrapped a bow around that for me where if they want to reopen it, I'm more than happy for them to, but I don't feel like they have to. And if they don't, I'm not going to be disappointed. Matt Ferrell: I got to agree with your assessment of you because you didn't question it. Is they. It was well told. We're gonna make a connection to a movie that's completely out in left field. But what's up, doc? That movie does the same thing. It's a wacky comedy, but the way they started out, it feels grounded in reality and just slowly ratchets up the insanity. So by the end of the movie, it's a full blown Warner Brothers cartoon style slapstick riding a bike down San Francisco streets into the, you know, inside of Chinese dragons. So if you watched just that scene, you'd be like, this movie looks stupid and insane, but because you went from the beginning to point, you were along for the ride and there were never huge gaps in what was happening for does this make any sense? Because the way it ratchet it up is so well told and thought out that it all cohesively works together. And that was this episode for me. They just did a fantastic job with it.

Sean Ferrell: Anything else we might say at this moment is going to be repeating accolades. So I've said everything I need to say other than like, at this point, anybody listening to this conversation, you must have watched this episode. But if you didn't, please go watch it. Please, please, please see it and please enjoy next time we're going to be coming back and talking about the August 6 episode, Human Best Friend. Please jump into the comments. Wrong answers only. What do you think that's about? And while you're down there leaving comments, let us know, what did you think about the Griffin incident? Do you agree with Matt and I that this is right up there with some of the better storytelling Star Trek has ever done? I will just put it up that high that I think this is one of my favorite all time Star Trek episodes. Now, do you think it's that good or did it not work for you? Or are you like Happy Flappy Farms who is just like, oh, I gotta get out of here and go watch the musical episode. Let us know in the comments. As always, your comments, your likes, your subscribes, all of those are great, easy ways for you to support the channel. If you'd like to support us more directly, go to TrekinTime.Show. Click the join button there. It allows you to throw some coins at our heads and it will sign you up as an Ensign, which means you will be signed up for our spin off show, Out of Time, in which we talk about things that don't fit within the confines of this program. We hope you'll be interested in checking that out. We also would like to thank you for your patience. There have been some weird gaps lately. We've had some family stuff going on that we've been having to deal with and so there have been a few breaks and there will probably be some more breaks in the future. Please bear with us.

We're trying to get back to our regular recording schedule as soon as possible and we do appreciate you coming back despite the fact we've taken a couple of weeks off. Thank you so much everybody for taking the time to watch or listen and we'll talk to you next time.