Matt and Sean talk about life-after-death, missed opportunities, and mis-understanding what ‘science fiction’ means.
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Hey, everybody in this episode of trek in time we’re gonna be talking about what if a near death experience was just a con job. That’s right, we’re talking about enterprise episode 18 of season 2 the crossing. And of course here on Trek in time we talk about every episode of star trek in chronological order and in history. So we’re looking at things going back to the very beginning of the trek timeline. So we’re in enterprise which also means we’re in 2003 and who are we well I’m Sean Ferrell I’m a published author. Write some sci-fi I write some stuff for kids with me is my brother Matt and Matt is the guru and inquisitor behind the Youtube channel undecided with Matt Ferrell which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives so we like to think we’ve got the left brain right? brain thing going on. We’ve got the storytelling. We’ve got the tech. And we’re ready to trek I did not mean I did not mean to rhyme but I hope everybody enjoyed that and I hope everybody put a fist in the answer they are too. So let’s get to it Matt how are you doing I’m not too bad here. We.
That doesn’t accept a great rhyme.
I’m good. How about you.
As we get ready to discuss the crossing I found myself thinking? Well what are we going to talk about because big picture Spoiler Alert didn’t feel like a lot happened in this episode. How did you feel about this one.
This might be a very short episode of trek in time today because I finished the episode and was like well.
Yeah, yeah, so before we get into the episode and talk about the newest episode the crossing. We always like to share some thoughts from previous episodes. So Matt do you want to jump into comments from our previous episodes.
Sure I have a few comments from the kanemar episode which was our last one which we made the joke of it being like con air a comment from Mako said you know Kannamar can also be pronounced conair jokes aside I like this episode nothing too special.
Um.
But had some interesting ideas and I think that is right along lines of how you and I felt at the end of the episode too. It’s kind of a wasn’t bad. It was kind of it’ this.
Um, yeah, yeah, and one of the things that I think that we discussed in that episode and it and it continues to lurk in the back of my head is enterprise. We talked in the first season especially about how much it felt like sitting around a campfire telling telling ghost stories and the idea that this was a frontier this really was supposed to be humanity stepping out for the first time and the kanemar episode.
Yeah, ghost stories.
Ends on a note of humans saying point blank to the representative of another world’s Government. You guys think you’re doing things for good reasons. But you’re really doing a piss poor job of it. The idea that they would be crossing paths with other societies that are. Not quite out of the dark ages the way they’d like to think they are is an aspect of this series that I don’t think has been exploited very well up to this point and and that’s that’s as I was watching this originally back in 2003 I Remember thinking like there.
Yes.
It has not no.
They’re depicting it almost like they’ve stepped off of Earth and into the future that feels like they’re trying too hard to make it so close to the original series of Humanity’s got its worst days behind it as opposed to really kind of embracing the are we really ready for this.
Yes.
Is anybody really ready for this and we meet other species that are also not quite ready for this and really kind of figuring out. Well you wander into somebody else’s space and then you get scooped up by their police as a smuggler. It’s kind of analogous to. Well. If you leave your home country and visit another country. You are subject to their laws and those laws may not be fair or objectively humanitarian but you really don’t get to pick that so this episode I agree with Mako’s response
Yes.
Ah, touches on on some interesting ideas I Just wish they had been more exploited in the episode and in the whole of the show.
Um, related directly to that another comment was from Aj Chan that said they could have linked this episode with judgment which is an episode 2 episodes later which we’ll be talking about very soon. Both talk about the criminal justice system with 1 being focused on the law side. The judgment.
Yes.
And the other being on the order side canemar. So I I thought I liked his call out of foreshadowing what what you and I are going to be talking about probably in the next episode. Um, and then finally the last one which was just a fun one from roll trav I really like the camera work in this episode. It really had the right feel throughout I agree like for me the film filmmaking aspect of the cannema episode was really good. It was well done. It was the writing that felt not quite.
Yeah.
Yeah I think we’re in good days as far as directors for this stretch of episodes. We’re seeing the same names again and again and we’re going to see that again today with David Livingston as the director of today’s episode
Fully baked. Yes, yep.
And we’ve seen him in other episodes more recently this season season 2 he directed stigma and he directed precious cargo and both of those episodes were ones that. We responded to with some uneven responses especially precious cargo where we were like oh there was missed opportunities within the story but neither of us had any issues with the directing. In fact especially with precious cargo. My response to precious cargo was I thought it was very well directed. Thought it did a very good job of doing a lot with some very interesting takes on making alien worlds look very unique and I I think that we’re going to see that again in today’s episode as well. So today’s episode Matt. You hear that read alert that can only mean 1 thing you’ve got to read the Wikipedia description Matt.
Ah, here we go. Okay, the crossing is the forty Fourth episode of the television series star trek enterprise the eighteenth of the second season. Ah. And incoporeal beings attempt to take over the earth starship enterprise at the start of the episode enterprise is taken inside an enormous alien spacecraft of unknown origin and the aliens take over various crew members bodies later in the episode. The crew takes shelter in the catwalk in the catwalk. Which has enhanced shielding. Oh and the episode is directed by Alan Croker it touch you okay delete that.
No, that no, that’s that’s that’s actually not accurate. That’s that’s an old note from a different episode so we’ll just delete that from the notes. So the synopsis is basically at the beginning of the episode incorporeal Aliens tried to take over the Earth Spaceship Enterprise and later in the episode.
They hide? yeah.
Crew takes shelter on the catwalk. That’s the end of the synopsis. That’s the entirety which to me makes me yes to me this synopsis feels like I wrote it when I was in second grade and didn’t actually read the entire book and had to write a book report.
That’s that’s also the episode.
Yes, it’s filler.
Yes, so as that synopsis barely says this is episode 18 of season 2 it’s directed by David Livingston as I mentioned before the story is written by Rick Berman Brandon Braga and Andre Bormanis and the teleplay is by Rick Berman and Brandon Braga Matt don’t think I’m going out too far into new territory when I point out that we’ve said before we aren’t the biggest fans of the Rick Berman brandon braggga episodes 2 men who shaped shaped modern trek in ways that.
Oh yeah.
On the series. Yes.
Revived revived a franchise that was for all intensive purposes in a holding pattern and did things to propel it into the future that I will forever appreciate. But an enterprise when it came to their episodes where they were heavily steeped in making the story. It just feels like 2 tired people really trying to recapture lightning in a bottle. This is one of those episodes.
Yeah.
I agree.
The original air date was April Second two thousand and three so I don’t get to make April fools jokes. Unfortunately the calendar just didn’t work out for me in that regard. But what was going on in April Second two thousand and three you asked Matt well I don’t have to remind you, you were listening to all I have which is Jennifer Lopez featuring l l cool j and at movies at movies is that even as what going on at movies hey have you been at movies recently make sure you get at movies.
At movies.
So night oscars yes, so at the movies we were going to see head of state head of state is the 2003 American Political comedy directed written and starring Chris Rock and co-starring Bernie Mac
Caveman right? Star trek.
Who is Chris Rock’s directorial debut and he had previously worked as a writer producer and actor the movie made $13000000 and on television on this day. April Second Two thousand and three enterprise earned Three point nine Million viewers which is about average for the season. But how does it stack up against the competition. Well not too great. My wife and kids was getting 8.7 George Lopez was getting 8.6. They were both on Abc the.
New.
Often talked about but completely forgotten star search in primetime on Cbs got nine point five million on Fox that 70 show and american idol we’re getting 31000000 respectively and an Nbc Dateline was getting nine point four but luckily for enterprise matt the wb did not rerun the lone ranger again which beat enterprise the previous week this week they went back to Dawson’s creek and enterprise was just barely able to squeak out more viewers. So.
Oh yeah.
All was right with world.
That’s good news for enterprise that’s right and despite american idol getting 20000000 viewers for the week the top rated show with Csi crime scene investigation again on Cbs getting 26000000 viewers for the week and in the news well it’s in broadcast time. It’s been about six weeks since we’ve seen an episode the last time we talked about an episode was an episode that was aired in February here we are April second 2003 and for those people who may not recall a little thing called the Iraq war started. In the interim the iraq war began on March Twentieth Two thousand and three and it would officially last until 2011 with the beginning of the drawdown of troops authorized by president Bush in 2008 the total number of troops at its maximum. Was 170000 and the initial fighting was swift with Hussein being captured and executed three years later but the civil war that broke out and allowed for Al Qaeda and insurgency operations for years made the war a protracted effort. So the news. Up to this point had been as I’ve shared it in week to week a variety of different sources and a variety of different coverage of the drumbeat leading up to the war. But at this point here we are. It’s only been a couple of weeks since the war started. The entirety of the New York Times front page was nothing but war coverage including generals and other military experts calling out critics of the war for being. Unpatriotic and doing a disservice to the servicemen serving in the Iraq war and of course hindsight being 20 people looking back at the beginning of the Iraq war there were opportunities missed to do certain things in a better way which is what the criticism was about so.
Right.
Coverage in The New York Times the response to the war in the New York Times and the overall conversation that was being had publicly was beginning to revolve entirely around. You’re either a patriot or you’re against the country and the servicemen. So. That’s what was on display mainly. On the front page on April Second two thousand and three
And I would want to point out that all of the stuff that we’ve been talking about over the past months in the news doesn’t have a direct relation to what’s happening in star trek but starting next season it does. Yeah.
Yeah, what were yeah yeah, that’s a very good point to mention that the the structure of this podcast is very much to take a look at the era in which the shows emerged and Enterprise is an interesting.
There’s something about enterprise almost like the show is a ship and a bottle and the original series constantly tackled social issues of the late 60 s early 70 s in its storytelling next generation.
Yes, yes.
Did something similar it pulled conversations that were just beginning to percolate in the mid to late eighty s deep space 9 voyager did that same thing to varying degrees as we entered the end of the century but enterprise up to this point has felt. Very hesitant to dip its toe into what is actually going on. We’ve only had a couple of episodes where you and I have talked about oh this is an analogy for what was going on at that time we had the episode which revolved around the aids metaphor and we discussed what was going on with the the fight against aids in. Ah, the United States and the world at large in connection to the program but we haven’t been able to do that too much. But as Matt points out stay tuned because 10 episodes from now we’re going to start having very different conversations because at this point, the iraq war has just begun.
It’s a very different story.
Producers and writers of this program have not had an opportunity to digest what is going on and produce shows reflecting the reality of the world that was being lived. That’s going to start with season 3 so here we are still in season 2 still looking at the crossing and. Again with patent pending Sean Ferrell’s pick the calendar date game. The most recent episode with a specific date was an episode dated September Twenty one 52 the next one with the specific date will be dated. January Twenty One 53 we’re just a couple of episodes away from that which means I’m speculating that this is happening sometime in early December Twenty one 52 and we start with the ship at warp speed and being pursued by. Well. I’m just going to call it a giant Manta Ray
Yeah, it’s it’s clear as day what it looks like it’s like there’s no hiding it. They clearly took inspiration from sea life for the way it looks I will say the 1 thing about the opening of this episode. It’s a really good cold open like the opening of this episode was.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Really tight really like what the and then it goes to the title sequence which I of course fast forward as quickly as I can because I can’t stand the theme song but it’s it was a really good cold open that did not deliver after it came back from the title sequences. So.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Usually were like and that cold open made no sense and it kind of went nowhere and Bo Bla blah. It’s like this one. They got the cold open right? and they kind of didn’t deliver on the the the second half of the show.
Yeah, for me I’ve discovered that if I hit my fast forward my skip button 10 times the moment I hear the phrase. It’s been a long road I get I get a I get immediately.
It’s been on lot Check click.
Get immediately to the end of the opening credits and see the title and the the opening of the episode first chapter. So I’ve got that down to a science. This episode was frustrating because I kept feeling like.
Me too.
It felt a little bit like playing a game where you know the game where um, it was popularized by Ellen you have your phone you put it on your forehead and it gives the the name of the thing that the person is supposed to guess and if they get it right? they.
Is.
Look back and if they get it wrong. They look down and it and it changes the the guess and it’ll be like celebrities and you’re supposed to say things like oh he was in terminator two and I’d be like Arnold Schwarzenegger and ding you get it right? I felt like this episode was giving me a list.
Ah.
Of really great sci-fi movies and I would be like oh this episode is going to be like close encounters thing and then the show would suddenly change direction and it would be oh, it’s not going to be like close encounters at all. It’s going to be like the abyss like oh.
Yeah I didn’t know we were going to this right.
No, it’s not gonna be like the abyss. It’s gonna be like Star man. Oh no, It’s not going to be like Star Man. It’s gonna be like cocoon. No, it’s not going to be like cocoon and by the time they get to a point where oh this is what the episode is going to be it settled into the laziest aspect of. The Enterprise storytelling which I’m going to cut to the end. This is all about an invasion, an invasion force onto the enterprise and I couldn’t have been less interested in that aspect of this.
Yes, yes, they’re trying to take over.
Yes I don’t disagree with anything you were saying I agree for me I wasn’t seeing all of the different movies that it was ripping off. It was just Homer Simpson going boring throughout most of the episode. I was not interested and then all the time there were like these moments of like oh this is so sci-fi that made me go no this is just stupid sci-fi and I kept asking like how does that make sense like Sean I know you could write this off by this saying? Oh. It’s so science fiction and so out there we can’t comprehend. Ah.
Yeah.
Why would a noncomppoal being require a capporeal ship. Why would a 9 caporal but being not be able to exist in space there subspace creatures what does it.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Wtf just kept coming into my head every time it was like it’s like here’s this huge ship that takes it over and they’re nonemporial What? what? How? what? how do they operate the ship like you can’t push buttons. It’s the physical ship with a nonphyical being. It makes no sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it’s like on just the science fiction aspect of this. It just fell apart for me completely and then I was just bored with what they were doing.
yeah yeah yeah I completely agree and for me I put my notes together into I have 2 large categories in my notes for every episode. What worked what didn’t work like just kind of like big spitball places for me to put some notes down to remember to talk about.
It? yeah.
What worked this episode was nominated for an emmy award for visual effects Very very clearly earned. There are more than a handful of times where we see the Alien Entities enter and leave rooms. Enter people’s you know.
Yeah, the visual effects were great. Yeah.
It’s really cool.
They they they go into a person’s face. They kind of like absorb up into the brain and then then the way they suck back out. They start referring to themselves as wisps based on the the first time one of them takes over trip.
And the way they suck back out was really cool.
And is in conversation then with to Paul and archer and here is the word wisp playfully plays with the word wisp and says yeah, that’s what you can call us. You can refer to us as wisps. It makes sense and that really is it’s like watching a gossamer. Tissue paper like travel into a person’s face and leave their face and the effect is not does not look green screeny does not look laid on in a way that is distracting. It really feels very incorporated into the image and and. Stopped really seeing it as a special effect at a certain point. It’s so well done in the episode as far as what didn’t work. Well met. You were just basically saying like these are not good sci-fi ideas and Rick Berman has been quoted as describing the episode as quote heavy science fiction that I’m very pleased with and that left me really feeling like I wonder does Mr Berman actually know what science fiction is especially in reference to this is what stood out to me.
Oh boy, No no.
Um, he’s quoted as saying this will remind people of the Alien clouds from the original series and he’s referring to a specific episode about Alien Clouds that are able to take over individuals of the enterprise this episode felt to me like a lesser version of an m. An episode from the original series. It felt like as you mentioned you have beings from subspace they are non-corporeal. Why do they have a ship. Why do they need a ship none of that is ever explained if it if there is a reason for it. Please provide it to us because otherwise it doesn’t make much sense. There are things I envisioned which could have done things to change the nature of the episode which could have been something like introduce. The idea that there are dimensions that. Never fully unfurled at the beginning of the big Bang. We have the known dimensions that we experience propose the idea that there’s a dimension that doesn’t get unfurled but it existed in enough of a way that these subspace beings are able to exist and that their subspace. Level Their dimension is decaying so they have to come into our dimension. They have to enter this universe in order to survive then you end up with an opportunity to say like okay these are beings that are struggling for survival as opposed to just being jerks.
But you’re you’re nailing the the thing I would say the best science fiction and fantasy. you can do whatever you want, you can do whatever you want but you have to establish clear rules that make sense within the confines of the little universe that you’re building you’re creating nacopoial beings. The first question should be. What would their ship be like how would they travel in space and design something that would make sense for a noncoporeal being it could have just been like a subspace rift that was chasing the ship and then envelod them and selling the the enterprise is in some kind of like bubble universe thing that. These wisps keep coming in and out of it’s not a physical ship. It’s something that would make sense for a non-comporial being. They just took the laziest path out and then to kind of harp on how it makes no sense in one part of the episode to to show that they’re trustworthy. They release the enterprise now the enterprise is not inside their ship anymore.
Yeah.
It’s in front of their ship. These wisps keep traveling from their ship outside in space and then come inside the enterprise and yet and yet they say we can’t exist in space Then how the hell are you getting aboard the ship.
Yes.
It’s no longer inside yours and you’re traveling through space to get in the Enterprise Whoa They didn’t even explain it. It could have been like we’re going in and out of subspace like so we can kind of reappear in your ship. It’s like they didn’t even say anything. It was just lazy lazy lazy. They didn’t even bother.
Right? Yeah yeah.
Um, right? Yeah yeah I hadn’t I I had any number of explanations pop into my head as to ways that you could have set up these wisps.
Half a sentence explanation for any of this stuff.
Yeah.
In a way that would have answered some of these questions like I just suggested what if they are beings from ah a dimension that is effectively decaying. It’s an it’s a unused tendril of the big bang and so they need to survive so they’re trying to escape or what if they are subspace beings that through some other Alien race that. Built that ship and the Alien race that built that ship was conducting experiments and accidentally pulled them out of subspace and now they’re trapped and they’re trapped here and now they have to figure out how do we survive in this place which is not our universe and we are dying if we don’t do something else.
Right.
There’s never a very clear explanation as to why these incorporeal beings would want to become corporeal. Why would they want to lock themselves into this type of experience I cannot imagine as a human deciding I’m an explorer I’m going to go to the Galapagos.
Well.
And I’m going to try to change brains with this tortoise because I think that sounds interesting.
Um, well they did Try. They did try to address that because there was the the dinner scene where trip is just eat gorging himself on all this food because this being has not eaten and doesn’t It’s a new experience to him. They tried to explain it as we were just like you a Millennia ago and we evolved into this and they evolved into that and they’re so separated from it Now. It’s almost like they’re bored and that they’re seeking something new and basically what they’re trying to basically evolve kind of back. Again because oh flavors and sensations and sex and gender and all that kind of stuff. It’s all new and exciting so kind of like they were trying to explain some kind of motivation for why they would want to come back. But for heonism that’s your explanation is basically hedonism. It’s like they just want to get it on and eat lots of food. It’s like no.
Um, yeah, yeah.
That is that is not a good explanation for why they’re doing what they’re doing.
Yeah I found myself thinking when this went from. Okay, it’s like close encounters. No, it’s like the abyss because then they get sucked into the ship you see the enterprise inside the ship and I thought it had a certain a certain abyss like feel to it. Then I thought oh no, it’s going to be the body swapping. It’s going to be trip is going to be It’s going to be like star man. He’s going to be a being who’s using trip’s body and I couldn’t help but think okay, the interesting turn for this would be for this trip. Who is not trip for not trip to convince Archer. We don’t mean you any harm we are explorers just like you. We used to be like you but we haven’t experienced anything like this before we would invite any of your crew that want to experience what trip is experiencing to. Do the same thing we would. We would be happy to do this kind of crossing with all of you but it’s temporary. It doesn’t have to last and you can you can trust us and do the demonstrated. Swapping back that they do where trip does come back and trip is like it was remarkable and he explains how he went places and saw things that were visceral and real and they were It’s tied into memory for him in an interesting way. It’s tied into memory while also being outside of the body. So. It’s 3 dimension. It’s a sort of 4 dimensional experience time and space are both affected by this and wouldn’t it have been interesting if they had the initial crossing non trip makes this argument of you can trust us. We. Don’t mean any harm. We’re explorers just like you and we want to experience what you what you experience on the corporeal level swapping back to demonstrate. We actually don’t mean any harm and then swapping again where non trip comes back and begins to have long conversations with archer and to Paul and his. Other shipmates about who this non-t tripp is and then when it comes time to return. Non-t trip makes the claim trip doesn’t want to come back now you have the second and third act being about archers.
Here you go. They have no way to confirm it. Yep.
Distrust of an Alien entity that is saying trip does not want to return and it becoming then? Okay, how do we force the switch back. How do we make sure that we get our crewmen back because we can’t actually trust this. What if then your final act involves the enterprise figuring out a way to force the swap back. They force the crossing to occur again. The non-trip is now replaced with trip and in doing so something happens to the aliens something is damaged in their ship. Something. The. Non-trip is hurt or killed and now trip is back and the Enterprise now just gets away from this strange damaged ship and as they’re leaving trip reveals I was exploring things that humanity would never get a chance to do. I Didn’t want to come back wouldn’t that have been an incredible ending especially since trip is the character you’ve talked about this you pointed this out many episodes ago trip is the explorer of the show.
That would have been very emotionally resonant. Yes, yes.
This episode has a couple of moments where like as uneven as the idea behind this quote Heavy sci-fi show this episode is and I do not think this is heavy sci-fi I think this is largely just kind of speculative fantasy writing. Um.
Is it.
There are moments of character development in this episode that could have been explored and expanded upon in really interesting ways. 1 of the things that stands out is to Paul has a moment where she says to archer you have said you trust my judgment trust me here like a really strong moment between her and archer because she basically says. I think I can figure out what they want because as a vulcan I’m more prepared to keep them out. So let me go put myself out as bait get in contact with them and figure out if I can figure out what their goals are and he doesn’t want to have that happen. There is also for. Archer there is a moment where they managed to finally figure out a safe place to hide the ship and it is suggested to him shouldn’t we just get the hell out of here and he says not without our crewmen. We’re not leaving anybody behind for him. Yeah.
Yeah, they weren’t going to leave like two dozen people behind. Yep.
And he is planting a flag in his character in that moment of his primary responsibility as captain is to his crew for him. That’s the primary concern above exploration but trip has again and again and again demonstrated I Want to see these things I want to grow a nipple on my wrist. I Want to go I Want to go ref filmm enemy mind with a guy on a desert planet like he’s the one who’s that character in this series I Can only imagine how how. It would have resonated for his character if he had come back and said captain I didn’t want to come back and I don’t know how I can yeah.
It would have left. It would have left the episode in a moral quandary because they just damaged that ship. They weren’t lying to us oh crap. It’s like it leaves it and kind of ah once again, the enterprise is kind of fumbling their way through space. It would have fit it would have fit the brand of the show. It would have fit.
Yeah, bright. Um, right.
The characters I agree with you. Um I do want to say we’re bagging on this episode a lot but there was an aspect of the show I did enjoy a lot flocks. This was action flocks and it was so awesome because it was so core to who he is. He’s not an action guy.
Um, yeah.
And there were so many moments where he’s like action man because he’s the only one that can’t be taken over where he’s walking the ship and he’s they’re talking him through doing all this stuff and he’s he doesn’t know what he’s doing like the whole thing of him trying to pull open the panel and he can’t get it open the Captain’s like you got to put some muscle behind it. He almost knocks himself unconscious trying to get the panel open though.
Um.
All of that stuff I thought was wonderful with him because it was so it was just so pitch perfect and on brand for who floxes and why he’s one of my favorite characters in the show and it was nice for him to get some screen time for him to show that he is a capable part of the crew. And he’s willing to put himself at risk to save everybody I thought that was nice so it’s like for me the 1 acceptable part of this episode was all about him. Um, and the other scenes that you mentioned like the dialogue between him and Depal was really nice I thought that was a nice moment where she’s saying you trust me? um. There were character moments that were well done. It was yeah.
I Think there were a lot of very good character moments and I think that this episode is not one that I would necessarily suggest people skip over I give it I feel like the series as a whole at this point from me is earning a high C Low B average.
Um, yeah.
As far as there have been episodes that you and I have both really enjoyed that have hit that a mark but they’re very infrequent and the show just feels like it bumps along not just is it an average but it’s also the mean it’s like most of the shows feel like if you just creak. Yeah, it just like cranked this knob a little bit Harder. You could have taken the same core episode into stronger territory and that’s where this one lands for me the like I said the initial idea around what could these aliens have done. What could the ending have been like my idea that what if trip had. Come back and said I didn’t want to come Back. Why did you bring me back. Um, it being a metaphor for near-death experience that is not really plumbed because and and for me one of the the weakest points of this is everybody on the crew. Some of them have.
Can we just.
Yeah, yeah.
Literally been in the room watching these aliens enter and leave their crewmates. So there are people in the dining hall who watch as trip is basically turns into another person. They see the entity happen. The Captain’s responsibility and the bridge crew’s responsibility for the rest of the crew. The rest of the crew would be informed about what’s going on the entire crew There’s a 1 moment where tepa says the crew is uneasy but they’re still functioning at high efficiency despite the fact that the ship has been swallowed by this alien vessel. This is a crew that is aware of everything is going on and yet every single time anybody gets taken over by an alien entity the people around that individual will be like Bob why you’re acting so weird.
Yes, yes, not every time not every time not every time I was impressed. The first time that when trip gets taken over when he’s working on the warp engine and he just leaves and the guy’s like sir where you going and he’s just like walks out.
Yeah.
He immediately calls the captain and says there’s something wrong with trip and I was like that’s awesome, but then fast forward halfway into the episode and reads on the elevator with that woman and just starts going the stuff he’s saying to her she would have been informed and she’d be immediately like okay this is not read.
Um, yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she handles it with a rolling of eyes as opposed to like Sir I’m gonna report this This is like this is completely Inappropriate. It’s.
But instead she plays it off like I’m just getting sexually harassed by a superior officer great and she rolls her eyes and walks away.
Exactly yeah.
Within the confines of the show. Not only is her response does not make sense given the reality of the experience with the alien entities. It doesn’t make sense within the realities of what an advanced military operation would look like and. For me the one that was the most egregious was when mayweather is sent to find read or he’s sent to find trip and when he finds trip and trip immediately begins to be like I’m fine and then walks like a robot down the gang plank and Mayweer is chasing him down the King Plank yelling
Yeah, yeah.
And he’s still going Sir sir.
Sir Why why? you acting so weird and it’s like golly you you don’t use mayweather enough and then when you do use him, you make him act like he’s just arrived to the planet like he’s never met any of these people before it was little things like that that just.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can we talk about the ending. Um the the ending was I thought a horrible disappointment. It was just like okay they shoot them and blow them up and just kill every single one of those aliens.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Because they established in the show They can’t exist in space so they blew up their ship which means they just killed all those things and then they just go see ya and just fly away and there’s like no ramifications for it. You just killed hundreds of beings. What where if you tie back to what you were talking about where they’re stranded here and something like that. It’s like there would be this.
Yeah, yeah.
Ah, moral quandary you end up in the end if they did that of like have a scene with the captain going I can’t believe we just did that but they left us no choice and you could show show the struggle that they had with what they ended up having to do none of that. It was It was like yeah let as skill as people and go off to gallauvan and this space next episode. It’s like it. It was so just Inappropriate. It felt completely inappropriate to me.
Right.
Yeah, it and it was it felt like opening up a can of Daos X Maina where it was just like we need to end this episode. So How about we blow up the ship as opposed to. Like I mentioned before if you have any kind of ending that revolves around like we misinterpreted and we acted from a place of fear as opposed to leaving open the possibility that an extremely powerful being that we can’t control. Could actually be benevolent in a way that we don’t anticipate. There could have been that final conversation where it would have been a wrap-up of well in order to get Away. We did a thing.
Is this.
We did a thing that put them in danger. But we also left them in a place where they can survive so we didn’t do unforgivable harm but we’ve bruised our relationship with them and now they will not trust us and then the 1 individual on the crew.
Earth.
Trip who might be looking at it as I would want to go back is no longer welcome that conversation I would have wanted to see that conversation between trip and archer of captain.
Can’t yep.
What were you thinking and it being the explorer against the caretaker having that conversation where archer would be able to say I understand you’re mad at me. But you’re my Crewman and my first responsibility without being in communication with you is to make sure you’re safe.
M.
That ending would have had a much stronger resilience than what we end up with of we just blew up a bunch of bad guys and they are clearly demonstrated as bad guys even to the point of I mean you mentioned flocks. He has got some great sequences including having to go visit Hoshi who when she has taken over fakes an injury injury. She calls for Flox’s attention claiming that the body that she is in is now injured so they are lying they are. They are nefarious and they are not to be trusted and without any motive described in any way that makes us care other than survival and we’ve seen that again and again and again and it it doesn’t have a new interesting hook there’s nothing here to to hook us but at the end of the day I think from a special effects perspective I think from a character-driven perspective of the nice moments between certain characters. And I also think even from a humor perspective. You can kind of you can kind of this There’s humor in two forms. There’s a little bit of the built-in humor around when the people start acting a little weird and like you mentioned trip saying you know I’m fine. Thank you sir to an underling and then.
Yes, yes.
Disappears down a hatch that doesn’t make any sense. It looks for all the world like he’s just going into the engine at that point and it’s just yeah, it’s like he was new Jeffrey’s tube and the response from the Crewman is like like things. What? Ah so there’s humor there.
Yeah, like I’m we going to do a Jeffer’s tube.
There’s also unintentional humor in the form of you can kind of especially if you’re watching this with somebody I think this would be a fun episode to kind of MST three k it like if you’re willing to like just have you have some riff tracks moments and like kind of laugh along with the episode and and do a mystery science theater take on it.
Yeah, little riff tracks a little. Yeah.
Think it can be a fun hate watch in that way. So I don’t say stay away from this one. But as far as like the big picture for Trek. Um, like Matt hinted at the beginning of this episode season 3 we’re going to start seeing things firing on different cylinders that we’re not accustomed to. And that’s where the the show really gets subtraction before we sign off Matt is there anything else, you’d like to remind our listeners about what do you have going on on your other channel.
Well I would say just to check out our other podcast with our wonderful host on that show too still to be determined. It’s a follow up podcast to my channel on Youtube where we talk about user viewer comments and just kind of feedback and kind of follow up thoughts on the episodes. Um. Be sure just check that show out.
As for me, you can check out my website http://seanferrell.com you can find out information about my books there you can also go directly to Amazon Barnes Noble or even non-megabooktores believe it or not smaller bookstores exists and public libraries and you can find my books at all those locations. Matt next time we’re gonna be talking as Mr Chan pointed out. We’re gonna be talking about judgment. Do you have any predictions about what judgment will be about.
Yes, ah maybe something to do with the Justice system. Ah.
Ah, Mr. Chan you let the cat out of the bag a curse upon you don’t forget if you’d like to support the show. Please consider leaving a review wherever it is that you found the show under your bed.
Spoiler.
Behind the door and the back of a drawer or on Apple Podcasts Google Podcast Spotify there’s lots of places you can find this podcast you know where you found it. Go back there and review us. Thanks so much if you’d like to more directly support us. You can go to trek in time show. And become a supporter there by clicking to become a supporter button creatively named I know and you can throw some coins at our head. We do appreciate it and we do have some supporters and we thanks to those supporters. Thank you so much you’re helping to keep this going.
Thank you very much.
And you’re helping us improve the show in the form of tight editing with an actual professional editor. So thank you so much everybody for listening all of that really does help support the show and we’ll talk to you next time.
That doesn’t accept a great rhyme.
I’m good. How about you.
As we get ready to discuss the crossing I found myself thinking? Well what are we going to talk about because big picture Spoiler Alert didn’t feel like a lot happened in this episode. How did you feel about this one.
This might be a very short episode of trek in time today because I finished the episode and was like well.
Yeah, yeah, so before we get into the episode and talk about the newest episode the crossing. We always like to share some thoughts from previous episodes. So Matt do you want to jump into comments from our previous episodes.
Sure I have a few comments from the kanemar episode which was our last one which we made the joke of it being like con air a comment from Mako said you know Kannamar can also be pronounced conair jokes aside I like this episode nothing too special.
Um.
But had some interesting ideas and I think that is right along lines of how you and I felt at the end of the episode too. It’s kind of a wasn’t bad. It was kind of it’ this.
Um, yeah, yeah, and one of the things that I think that we discussed in that episode and it and it continues to lurk in the back of my head is enterprise. We talked in the first season especially about how much it felt like sitting around a campfire telling telling ghost stories and the idea that this was a frontier this really was supposed to be humanity stepping out for the first time and the kanemar episode.
Yeah, ghost stories.
Ends on a note of humans saying point blank to the representative of another world’s Government. You guys think you’re doing things for good reasons. But you’re really doing a piss poor job of it. The idea that they would be crossing paths with other societies that are. Not quite out of the dark ages the way they’d like to think they are is an aspect of this series that I don’t think has been exploited very well up to this point and and that’s that’s as I was watching this originally back in 2003 I Remember thinking like there.
Yes.
It has not no.
They’re depicting it almost like they’ve stepped off of Earth and into the future that feels like they’re trying too hard to make it so close to the original series of Humanity’s got its worst days behind it as opposed to really kind of embracing the are we really ready for this.
Yes.
Is anybody really ready for this and we meet other species that are also not quite ready for this and really kind of figuring out. Well you wander into somebody else’s space and then you get scooped up by their police as a smuggler. It’s kind of analogous to. Well. If you leave your home country and visit another country. You are subject to their laws and those laws may not be fair or objectively humanitarian but you really don’t get to pick that so this episode I agree with Mako’s response
Yes.
Ah, touches on on some interesting ideas I Just wish they had been more exploited in the episode and in the whole of the show.
Um, related directly to that another comment was from Aj Chan that said they could have linked this episode with judgment which is an episode 2 episodes later which we’ll be talking about very soon. Both talk about the criminal justice system with 1 being focused on the law side. The judgment.
Yes.
And the other being on the order side canemar. So I I thought I liked his call out of foreshadowing what what you and I are going to be talking about probably in the next episode. Um, and then finally the last one which was just a fun one from roll trav I really like the camera work in this episode. It really had the right feel throughout I agree like for me the film filmmaking aspect of the cannema episode was really good. It was well done. It was the writing that felt not quite.
Yeah.
Yeah I think we’re in good days as far as directors for this stretch of episodes. We’re seeing the same names again and again and we’re going to see that again today with David Livingston as the director of today’s episode
Fully baked. Yes, yep.
And we’ve seen him in other episodes more recently this season season 2 he directed stigma and he directed precious cargo and both of those episodes were ones that. We responded to with some uneven responses especially precious cargo where we were like oh there was missed opportunities within the story but neither of us had any issues with the directing. In fact especially with precious cargo. My response to precious cargo was I thought it was very well directed. Thought it did a very good job of doing a lot with some very interesting takes on making alien worlds look very unique and I I think that we’re going to see that again in today’s episode as well. So today’s episode Matt. You hear that read alert that can only mean 1 thing you’ve got to read the Wikipedia description Matt.
Ah, here we go. Okay, the crossing is the forty Fourth episode of the television series star trek enterprise the eighteenth of the second season. Ah. And incoporeal beings attempt to take over the earth starship enterprise at the start of the episode enterprise is taken inside an enormous alien spacecraft of unknown origin and the aliens take over various crew members bodies later in the episode. The crew takes shelter in the catwalk in the catwalk. Which has enhanced shielding. Oh and the episode is directed by Alan Croker it touch you okay delete that.
No, that no, that’s that’s that’s actually not accurate. That’s that’s an old note from a different episode so we’ll just delete that from the notes. So the synopsis is basically at the beginning of the episode incorporeal Aliens tried to take over the Earth Spaceship Enterprise and later in the episode.
They hide? yeah.
Crew takes shelter on the catwalk. That’s the end of the synopsis. That’s the entirety which to me makes me yes to me this synopsis feels like I wrote it when I was in second grade and didn’t actually read the entire book and had to write a book report.
That’s that’s also the episode.
Yes, it’s filler.
Yes, so as that synopsis barely says this is episode 18 of season 2 it’s directed by David Livingston as I mentioned before the story is written by Rick Berman Brandon Braga and Andre Bormanis and the teleplay is by Rick Berman and Brandon Braga Matt don’t think I’m going out too far into new territory when I point out that we’ve said before we aren’t the biggest fans of the Rick Berman brandon braggga episodes 2 men who shaped shaped modern trek in ways that.
Oh yeah.
On the series. Yes.
Revived revived a franchise that was for all intensive purposes in a holding pattern and did things to propel it into the future that I will forever appreciate. But an enterprise when it came to their episodes where they were heavily steeped in making the story. It just feels like 2 tired people really trying to recapture lightning in a bottle. This is one of those episodes.
Yeah.
I agree.
The original air date was April Second two thousand and three so I don’t get to make April fools jokes. Unfortunately the calendar just didn’t work out for me in that regard. But what was going on in April Second two thousand and three you asked Matt well I don’t have to remind you, you were listening to all I have which is Jennifer Lopez featuring l l cool j and at movies at movies is that even as what going on at movies hey have you been at movies recently make sure you get at movies.
At movies.
So night oscars yes, so at the movies we were going to see head of state head of state is the 2003 American Political comedy directed written and starring Chris Rock and co-starring Bernie Mac
Caveman right? Star trek.
Who is Chris Rock’s directorial debut and he had previously worked as a writer producer and actor the movie made $13000000 and on television on this day. April Second Two thousand and three enterprise earned Three point nine Million viewers which is about average for the season. But how does it stack up against the competition. Well not too great. My wife and kids was getting 8.7 George Lopez was getting 8.6. They were both on Abc the.
New.
Often talked about but completely forgotten star search in primetime on Cbs got nine point five million on Fox that 70 show and american idol we’re getting 31000000 respectively and an Nbc Dateline was getting nine point four but luckily for enterprise matt the wb did not rerun the lone ranger again which beat enterprise the previous week this week they went back to Dawson’s creek and enterprise was just barely able to squeak out more viewers. So.
Oh yeah.
All was right with world.
That’s good news for enterprise that’s right and despite american idol getting 20000000 viewers for the week the top rated show with Csi crime scene investigation again on Cbs getting 26000000 viewers for the week and in the news well it’s in broadcast time. It’s been about six weeks since we’ve seen an episode the last time we talked about an episode was an episode that was aired in February here we are April second 2003 and for those people who may not recall a little thing called the Iraq war started. In the interim the iraq war began on March Twentieth Two thousand and three and it would officially last until 2011 with the beginning of the drawdown of troops authorized by president Bush in 2008 the total number of troops at its maximum. Was 170000 and the initial fighting was swift with Hussein being captured and executed three years later but the civil war that broke out and allowed for Al Qaeda and insurgency operations for years made the war a protracted effort. So the news. Up to this point had been as I’ve shared it in week to week a variety of different sources and a variety of different coverage of the drumbeat leading up to the war. But at this point here we are. It’s only been a couple of weeks since the war started. The entirety of the New York Times front page was nothing but war coverage including generals and other military experts calling out critics of the war for being. Unpatriotic and doing a disservice to the servicemen serving in the Iraq war and of course hindsight being 20 people looking back at the beginning of the Iraq war there were opportunities missed to do certain things in a better way which is what the criticism was about so.
Right.
Coverage in The New York Times the response to the war in the New York Times and the overall conversation that was being had publicly was beginning to revolve entirely around. You’re either a patriot or you’re against the country and the servicemen. So. That’s what was on display mainly. On the front page on April Second two thousand and three
And I would want to point out that all of the stuff that we’ve been talking about over the past months in the news doesn’t have a direct relation to what’s happening in star trek but starting next season it does. Yeah.
Yeah, what were yeah yeah, that’s a very good point to mention that the the structure of this podcast is very much to take a look at the era in which the shows emerged and Enterprise is an interesting.
There’s something about enterprise almost like the show is a ship and a bottle and the original series constantly tackled social issues of the late 60 s early 70 s in its storytelling next generation.
Yes, yes.
Did something similar it pulled conversations that were just beginning to percolate in the mid to late eighty s deep space 9 voyager did that same thing to varying degrees as we entered the end of the century but enterprise up to this point has felt. Very hesitant to dip its toe into what is actually going on. We’ve only had a couple of episodes where you and I have talked about oh this is an analogy for what was going on at that time we had the episode which revolved around the aids metaphor and we discussed what was going on with the the fight against aids in. Ah, the United States and the world at large in connection to the program but we haven’t been able to do that too much. But as Matt points out stay tuned because 10 episodes from now we’re going to start having very different conversations because at this point, the iraq war has just begun.
It’s a very different story.
Producers and writers of this program have not had an opportunity to digest what is going on and produce shows reflecting the reality of the world that was being lived. That’s going to start with season 3 so here we are still in season 2 still looking at the crossing and. Again with patent pending Sean Ferrell’s pick the calendar date game. The most recent episode with a specific date was an episode dated September Twenty one 52 the next one with the specific date will be dated. January Twenty One 53 we’re just a couple of episodes away from that which means I’m speculating that this is happening sometime in early December Twenty one 52 and we start with the ship at warp speed and being pursued by. Well. I’m just going to call it a giant Manta Ray
Yeah, it’s it’s clear as day what it looks like it’s like there’s no hiding it. They clearly took inspiration from sea life for the way it looks I will say the 1 thing about the opening of this episode. It’s a really good cold open like the opening of this episode was.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Really tight really like what the and then it goes to the title sequence which I of course fast forward as quickly as I can because I can’t stand the theme song but it’s it was a really good cold open that did not deliver after it came back from the title sequences. So.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Usually were like and that cold open made no sense and it kind of went nowhere and Bo Bla blah. It’s like this one. They got the cold open right? and they kind of didn’t deliver on the the the second half of the show.
Yeah, for me I’ve discovered that if I hit my fast forward my skip button 10 times the moment I hear the phrase. It’s been a long road I get I get a I get immediately.
It’s been on lot Check click.
Get immediately to the end of the opening credits and see the title and the the opening of the episode first chapter. So I’ve got that down to a science. This episode was frustrating because I kept feeling like.
Me too.
It felt a little bit like playing a game where you know the game where um, it was popularized by Ellen you have your phone you put it on your forehead and it gives the the name of the thing that the person is supposed to guess and if they get it right? they.
Is.
Look back and if they get it wrong. They look down and it and it changes the the guess and it’ll be like celebrities and you’re supposed to say things like oh he was in terminator two and I’d be like Arnold Schwarzenegger and ding you get it right? I felt like this episode was giving me a list.
Ah.
Of really great sci-fi movies and I would be like oh this episode is going to be like close encounters thing and then the show would suddenly change direction and it would be oh, it’s not going to be like close encounters at all. It’s going to be like the abyss like oh.
Yeah I didn’t know we were going to this right.
No, it’s not gonna be like the abyss. It’s gonna be like Star man. Oh no, It’s not going to be like Star Man. It’s gonna be like cocoon. No, it’s not going to be like cocoon and by the time they get to a point where oh this is what the episode is going to be it settled into the laziest aspect of. The Enterprise storytelling which I’m going to cut to the end. This is all about an invasion, an invasion force onto the enterprise and I couldn’t have been less interested in that aspect of this.
Yes, yes, they’re trying to take over.
Yes I don’t disagree with anything you were saying I agree for me I wasn’t seeing all of the different movies that it was ripping off. It was just Homer Simpson going boring throughout most of the episode. I was not interested and then all the time there were like these moments of like oh this is so sci-fi that made me go no this is just stupid sci-fi and I kept asking like how does that make sense like Sean I know you could write this off by this saying? Oh. It’s so science fiction and so out there we can’t comprehend. Ah.
Yeah.
Why would a noncomppoal being require a capporeal ship. Why would a 9 caporal but being not be able to exist in space there subspace creatures what does it.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Wtf just kept coming into my head every time it was like it’s like here’s this huge ship that takes it over and they’re nonemporial What? what? How? what? how do they operate the ship like you can’t push buttons. It’s the physical ship with a nonphyical being. It makes no sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it’s like on just the science fiction aspect of this. It just fell apart for me completely and then I was just bored with what they were doing.
yeah yeah yeah I completely agree and for me I put my notes together into I have 2 large categories in my notes for every episode. What worked what didn’t work like just kind of like big spitball places for me to put some notes down to remember to talk about.
It? yeah.
What worked this episode was nominated for an emmy award for visual effects Very very clearly earned. There are more than a handful of times where we see the Alien Entities enter and leave rooms. Enter people’s you know.
Yeah, the visual effects were great. Yeah.
It’s really cool.
They they they go into a person’s face. They kind of like absorb up into the brain and then then the way they suck back out. They start referring to themselves as wisps based on the the first time one of them takes over trip.
And the way they suck back out was really cool.
And is in conversation then with to Paul and archer and here is the word wisp playfully plays with the word wisp and says yeah, that’s what you can call us. You can refer to us as wisps. It makes sense and that really is it’s like watching a gossamer. Tissue paper like travel into a person’s face and leave their face and the effect is not does not look green screeny does not look laid on in a way that is distracting. It really feels very incorporated into the image and and. Stopped really seeing it as a special effect at a certain point. It’s so well done in the episode as far as what didn’t work. Well met. You were just basically saying like these are not good sci-fi ideas and Rick Berman has been quoted as describing the episode as quote heavy science fiction that I’m very pleased with and that left me really feeling like I wonder does Mr Berman actually know what science fiction is especially in reference to this is what stood out to me.
Oh boy, No no.
Um, he’s quoted as saying this will remind people of the Alien clouds from the original series and he’s referring to a specific episode about Alien Clouds that are able to take over individuals of the enterprise this episode felt to me like a lesser version of an m. An episode from the original series. It felt like as you mentioned you have beings from subspace they are non-corporeal. Why do they have a ship. Why do they need a ship none of that is ever explained if it if there is a reason for it. Please provide it to us because otherwise it doesn’t make much sense. There are things I envisioned which could have done things to change the nature of the episode which could have been something like introduce. The idea that there are dimensions that. Never fully unfurled at the beginning of the big Bang. We have the known dimensions that we experience propose the idea that there’s a dimension that doesn’t get unfurled but it existed in enough of a way that these subspace beings are able to exist and that their subspace. Level Their dimension is decaying so they have to come into our dimension. They have to enter this universe in order to survive then you end up with an opportunity to say like okay these are beings that are struggling for survival as opposed to just being jerks.
But you’re you’re nailing the the thing I would say the best science fiction and fantasy. you can do whatever you want, you can do whatever you want but you have to establish clear rules that make sense within the confines of the little universe that you’re building you’re creating nacopoial beings. The first question should be. What would their ship be like how would they travel in space and design something that would make sense for a noncoporeal being it could have just been like a subspace rift that was chasing the ship and then envelod them and selling the the enterprise is in some kind of like bubble universe thing that. These wisps keep coming in and out of it’s not a physical ship. It’s something that would make sense for a non-comporial being. They just took the laziest path out and then to kind of harp on how it makes no sense in one part of the episode to to show that they’re trustworthy. They release the enterprise now the enterprise is not inside their ship anymore.
Yeah.
It’s in front of their ship. These wisps keep traveling from their ship outside in space and then come inside the enterprise and yet and yet they say we can’t exist in space Then how the hell are you getting aboard the ship.
Yes.
It’s no longer inside yours and you’re traveling through space to get in the Enterprise Whoa They didn’t even explain it. It could have been like we’re going in and out of subspace like so we can kind of reappear in your ship. It’s like they didn’t even say anything. It was just lazy lazy lazy. They didn’t even bother.
Right? Yeah yeah.
Um, right? Yeah yeah I hadn’t I I had any number of explanations pop into my head as to ways that you could have set up these wisps.
Half a sentence explanation for any of this stuff.
Yeah.
In a way that would have answered some of these questions like I just suggested what if they are beings from ah a dimension that is effectively decaying. It’s an it’s a unused tendril of the big bang and so they need to survive so they’re trying to escape or what if they are subspace beings that through some other Alien race that. Built that ship and the Alien race that built that ship was conducting experiments and accidentally pulled them out of subspace and now they’re trapped and they’re trapped here and now they have to figure out how do we survive in this place which is not our universe and we are dying if we don’t do something else.
Right.
There’s never a very clear explanation as to why these incorporeal beings would want to become corporeal. Why would they want to lock themselves into this type of experience I cannot imagine as a human deciding I’m an explorer I’m going to go to the Galapagos.
Well.
And I’m going to try to change brains with this tortoise because I think that sounds interesting.
Um, well they did Try. They did try to address that because there was the the dinner scene where trip is just eat gorging himself on all this food because this being has not eaten and doesn’t It’s a new experience to him. They tried to explain it as we were just like you a Millennia ago and we evolved into this and they evolved into that and they’re so separated from it Now. It’s almost like they’re bored and that they’re seeking something new and basically what they’re trying to basically evolve kind of back. Again because oh flavors and sensations and sex and gender and all that kind of stuff. It’s all new and exciting so kind of like they were trying to explain some kind of motivation for why they would want to come back. But for heonism that’s your explanation is basically hedonism. It’s like they just want to get it on and eat lots of food. It’s like no.
Um, yeah, yeah.
That is that is not a good explanation for why they’re doing what they’re doing.
Yeah I found myself thinking when this went from. Okay, it’s like close encounters. No, it’s like the abyss because then they get sucked into the ship you see the enterprise inside the ship and I thought it had a certain a certain abyss like feel to it. Then I thought oh no, it’s going to be the body swapping. It’s going to be trip is going to be It’s going to be like star man. He’s going to be a being who’s using trip’s body and I couldn’t help but think okay, the interesting turn for this would be for this trip. Who is not trip for not trip to convince Archer. We don’t mean you any harm we are explorers just like you. We used to be like you but we haven’t experienced anything like this before we would invite any of your crew that want to experience what trip is experiencing to. Do the same thing we would. We would be happy to do this kind of crossing with all of you but it’s temporary. It doesn’t have to last and you can you can trust us and do the demonstrated. Swapping back that they do where trip does come back and trip is like it was remarkable and he explains how he went places and saw things that were visceral and real and they were It’s tied into memory for him in an interesting way. It’s tied into memory while also being outside of the body. So. It’s 3 dimension. It’s a sort of 4 dimensional experience time and space are both affected by this and wouldn’t it have been interesting if they had the initial crossing non trip makes this argument of you can trust us. We. Don’t mean any harm. We’re explorers just like you and we want to experience what you what you experience on the corporeal level swapping back to demonstrate. We actually don’t mean any harm and then swapping again where non trip comes back and begins to have long conversations with archer and to Paul and his. Other shipmates about who this non-t tripp is and then when it comes time to return. Non-t trip makes the claim trip doesn’t want to come back now you have the second and third act being about archers.
Here you go. They have no way to confirm it. Yep.
Distrust of an Alien entity that is saying trip does not want to return and it becoming then? Okay, how do we force the switch back. How do we make sure that we get our crewmen back because we can’t actually trust this. What if then your final act involves the enterprise figuring out a way to force the swap back. They force the crossing to occur again. The non-trip is now replaced with trip and in doing so something happens to the aliens something is damaged in their ship. Something. The. Non-trip is hurt or killed and now trip is back and the Enterprise now just gets away from this strange damaged ship and as they’re leaving trip reveals I was exploring things that humanity would never get a chance to do. I Didn’t want to come back wouldn’t that have been an incredible ending especially since trip is the character you’ve talked about this you pointed this out many episodes ago trip is the explorer of the show.
That would have been very emotionally resonant. Yes, yes.
This episode has a couple of moments where like as uneven as the idea behind this quote Heavy sci-fi show this episode is and I do not think this is heavy sci-fi I think this is largely just kind of speculative fantasy writing. Um.
Is it.
There are moments of character development in this episode that could have been explored and expanded upon in really interesting ways. 1 of the things that stands out is to Paul has a moment where she says to archer you have said you trust my judgment trust me here like a really strong moment between her and archer because she basically says. I think I can figure out what they want because as a vulcan I’m more prepared to keep them out. So let me go put myself out as bait get in contact with them and figure out if I can figure out what their goals are and he doesn’t want to have that happen. There is also for. Archer there is a moment where they managed to finally figure out a safe place to hide the ship and it is suggested to him shouldn’t we just get the hell out of here and he says not without our crewmen. We’re not leaving anybody behind for him. Yeah.
Yeah, they weren’t going to leave like two dozen people behind. Yep.
And he is planting a flag in his character in that moment of his primary responsibility as captain is to his crew for him. That’s the primary concern above exploration but trip has again and again and again demonstrated I Want to see these things I want to grow a nipple on my wrist. I Want to go I Want to go ref filmm enemy mind with a guy on a desert planet like he’s the one who’s that character in this series I Can only imagine how how. It would have resonated for his character if he had come back and said captain I didn’t want to come back and I don’t know how I can yeah.
It would have left. It would have left the episode in a moral quandary because they just damaged that ship. They weren’t lying to us oh crap. It’s like it leaves it and kind of ah once again, the enterprise is kind of fumbling their way through space. It would have fit it would have fit the brand of the show. It would have fit.
Yeah, bright. Um, right.
The characters I agree with you. Um I do want to say we’re bagging on this episode a lot but there was an aspect of the show I did enjoy a lot flocks. This was action flocks and it was so awesome because it was so core to who he is. He’s not an action guy.
Um, yeah.
And there were so many moments where he’s like action man because he’s the only one that can’t be taken over where he’s walking the ship and he’s they’re talking him through doing all this stuff and he’s he doesn’t know what he’s doing like the whole thing of him trying to pull open the panel and he can’t get it open the Captain’s like you got to put some muscle behind it. He almost knocks himself unconscious trying to get the panel open though.
Um.
All of that stuff I thought was wonderful with him because it was so it was just so pitch perfect and on brand for who floxes and why he’s one of my favorite characters in the show and it was nice for him to get some screen time for him to show that he is a capable part of the crew. And he’s willing to put himself at risk to save everybody I thought that was nice so it’s like for me the 1 acceptable part of this episode was all about him. Um, and the other scenes that you mentioned like the dialogue between him and Depal was really nice I thought that was a nice moment where she’s saying you trust me? um. There were character moments that were well done. It was yeah.
I Think there were a lot of very good character moments and I think that this episode is not one that I would necessarily suggest people skip over I give it I feel like the series as a whole at this point from me is earning a high C Low B average.
Um, yeah.
As far as there have been episodes that you and I have both really enjoyed that have hit that a mark but they’re very infrequent and the show just feels like it bumps along not just is it an average but it’s also the mean it’s like most of the shows feel like if you just creak. Yeah, it just like cranked this knob a little bit Harder. You could have taken the same core episode into stronger territory and that’s where this one lands for me the like I said the initial idea around what could these aliens have done. What could the ending have been like my idea that what if trip had. Come back and said I didn’t want to come Back. Why did you bring me back. Um, it being a metaphor for near-death experience that is not really plumbed because and and for me one of the the weakest points of this is everybody on the crew. Some of them have.
Can we just.
Yeah, yeah.
Literally been in the room watching these aliens enter and leave their crewmates. So there are people in the dining hall who watch as trip is basically turns into another person. They see the entity happen. The Captain’s responsibility and the bridge crew’s responsibility for the rest of the crew. The rest of the crew would be informed about what’s going on the entire crew There’s a 1 moment where tepa says the crew is uneasy but they’re still functioning at high efficiency despite the fact that the ship has been swallowed by this alien vessel. This is a crew that is aware of everything is going on and yet every single time anybody gets taken over by an alien entity the people around that individual will be like Bob why you’re acting so weird.
Yes, yes, not every time not every time not every time I was impressed. The first time that when trip gets taken over when he’s working on the warp engine and he just leaves and the guy’s like sir where you going and he’s just like walks out.
Yeah.
He immediately calls the captain and says there’s something wrong with trip and I was like that’s awesome, but then fast forward halfway into the episode and reads on the elevator with that woman and just starts going the stuff he’s saying to her she would have been informed and she’d be immediately like okay this is not read.
Um, yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she handles it with a rolling of eyes as opposed to like Sir I’m gonna report this This is like this is completely Inappropriate. It’s.
But instead she plays it off like I’m just getting sexually harassed by a superior officer great and she rolls her eyes and walks away.
Exactly yeah.
Within the confines of the show. Not only is her response does not make sense given the reality of the experience with the alien entities. It doesn’t make sense within the realities of what an advanced military operation would look like and. For me the one that was the most egregious was when mayweather is sent to find read or he’s sent to find trip and when he finds trip and trip immediately begins to be like I’m fine and then walks like a robot down the gang plank and Mayweer is chasing him down the King Plank yelling
Yeah, yeah.
And he’s still going Sir sir.
Sir Why why? you acting so weird and it’s like golly you you don’t use mayweather enough and then when you do use him, you make him act like he’s just arrived to the planet like he’s never met any of these people before it was little things like that that just.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can we talk about the ending. Um the the ending was I thought a horrible disappointment. It was just like okay they shoot them and blow them up and just kill every single one of those aliens.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Because they established in the show They can’t exist in space so they blew up their ship which means they just killed all those things and then they just go see ya and just fly away and there’s like no ramifications for it. You just killed hundreds of beings. What where if you tie back to what you were talking about where they’re stranded here and something like that. It’s like there would be this.
Yeah, yeah.
Ah, moral quandary you end up in the end if they did that of like have a scene with the captain going I can’t believe we just did that but they left us no choice and you could show show the struggle that they had with what they ended up having to do none of that. It was It was like yeah let as skill as people and go off to gallauvan and this space next episode. It’s like it. It was so just Inappropriate. It felt completely inappropriate to me.
Right.
Yeah, it and it was it felt like opening up a can of Daos X Maina where it was just like we need to end this episode. So How about we blow up the ship as opposed to. Like I mentioned before if you have any kind of ending that revolves around like we misinterpreted and we acted from a place of fear as opposed to leaving open the possibility that an extremely powerful being that we can’t control. Could actually be benevolent in a way that we don’t anticipate. There could have been that final conversation where it would have been a wrap-up of well in order to get Away. We did a thing.
Is this.
We did a thing that put them in danger. But we also left them in a place where they can survive so we didn’t do unforgivable harm but we’ve bruised our relationship with them and now they will not trust us and then the 1 individual on the crew.
Earth.
Trip who might be looking at it as I would want to go back is no longer welcome that conversation I would have wanted to see that conversation between trip and archer of captain.
Can’t yep.
What were you thinking and it being the explorer against the caretaker having that conversation where archer would be able to say I understand you’re mad at me. But you’re my Crewman and my first responsibility without being in communication with you is to make sure you’re safe.
M.
That ending would have had a much stronger resilience than what we end up with of we just blew up a bunch of bad guys and they are clearly demonstrated as bad guys even to the point of I mean you mentioned flocks. He has got some great sequences including having to go visit Hoshi who when she has taken over fakes an injury injury. She calls for Flox’s attention claiming that the body that she is in is now injured so they are lying they are. They are nefarious and they are not to be trusted and without any motive described in any way that makes us care other than survival and we’ve seen that again and again and again and it it doesn’t have a new interesting hook there’s nothing here to to hook us but at the end of the day I think from a special effects perspective I think from a character-driven perspective of the nice moments between certain characters. And I also think even from a humor perspective. You can kind of you can kind of this There’s humor in two forms. There’s a little bit of the built-in humor around when the people start acting a little weird and like you mentioned trip saying you know I’m fine. Thank you sir to an underling and then.
Yes, yes.
Disappears down a hatch that doesn’t make any sense. It looks for all the world like he’s just going into the engine at that point and it’s just yeah, it’s like he was new Jeffrey’s tube and the response from the Crewman is like like things. What? Ah so there’s humor there.
Yeah, like I’m we going to do a Jeffer’s tube.
There’s also unintentional humor in the form of you can kind of especially if you’re watching this with somebody I think this would be a fun episode to kind of MST three k it like if you’re willing to like just have you have some riff tracks moments and like kind of laugh along with the episode and and do a mystery science theater take on it.
Yeah, little riff tracks a little. Yeah.
Think it can be a fun hate watch in that way. So I don’t say stay away from this one. But as far as like the big picture for Trek. Um, like Matt hinted at the beginning of this episode season 3 we’re going to start seeing things firing on different cylinders that we’re not accustomed to. And that’s where the the show really gets subtraction before we sign off Matt is there anything else, you’d like to remind our listeners about what do you have going on on your other channel.
Well I would say just to check out our other podcast with our wonderful host on that show too still to be determined. It’s a follow up podcast to my channel on Youtube where we talk about user viewer comments and just kind of feedback and kind of follow up thoughts on the episodes. Um. Be sure just check that show out.
As for me, you can check out my website http://seanferrell.com you can find out information about my books there you can also go directly to Amazon Barnes Noble or even non-megabooktores believe it or not smaller bookstores exists and public libraries and you can find my books at all those locations. Matt next time we’re gonna be talking as Mr Chan pointed out. We’re gonna be talking about judgment. Do you have any predictions about what judgment will be about.
Yes, ah maybe something to do with the Justice system. Ah.
Ah, Mr. Chan you let the cat out of the bag a curse upon you don’t forget if you’d like to support the show. Please consider leaving a review wherever it is that you found the show under your bed.
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