Matt and Sean talk about rockin’ and rollin’ (and cave-ins and xenophobia)!
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In today’s episode we’re going to talk about watching paint dry. No no sorry, we’re going to talk about rock climbing and how to put your focus on the wrong thing. That’s right, we’re talking about enterprise episode 21 of season 2 the breach originally aired on April Twenty Third 2003 welcome everybody to trek in time where as you should probably know by now we’re talking about every episode of star trek and chronological order. We’re also taking a look at what the world was like when the episodes originally broadcast so where are we right now. Well we’re still an enterprise. And we’re talking about the episodes that dropped in the year two thousand and three so it’s still early days for the overall trek universe but it’s more recent history as far as our world and we’re going to look at the intersection between the 2 who are we? That’s what I’m asking Matt who are we who are we well me I’m Sean Farrell I’m a published writer I write some sci-fi I write some stuff for kids and with me is my brother Matt Matt how you doing I’m doing well Matt is the originator behind the.
Who who are we Sean who are we.
I’m good how you doing.
Youtube channel undecided with Matt Ferrell which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives so between me the writer and him the techie we are trying to be all things trekky. Yeah.
I was so wondering if you were going to do that and you did.
We didn’t want to get there but we did as usual, we invite people to weigh in in the comments you can find the contact information at podcast description or you can write to us through the comments on Youtube either 1 will reach us. We are happy to receive any kind of thoughts about our episodes or the episodes of star trek that we’re watching and Matt I understand you’ve got some things from a recent episode that you wanted to talk about from our commenters.
Yeah, there was ah 1 comment that really caught my eye from hhhann on the episode where we talked about horizon which was Travis going back home and it was one of those rare hey they’re talking about Travis episodes. He said it was great to see some folks on Travis even if the episode was not well written. Flox rarely has his own episodes but they found ways of developing him through his interactions with other characters in the plot far too often. Travis had nothing to do dsign did a better job developing Rom and admiral Ross who were supporting characters. That’s why I called this comment out I thought that was a great astute comment I would argue.
And yes.
Pretty much every other star trek series did a better job developing the minor characters than this show was doing I think they’re really giving short shrift to all of the secondary characters Hoshi Travis even read to a certain extent. They’re basically just focusing on 3 characters for.
Yeah.
4 if you include flocks. But it’s like it seems like they’re incapable of understanding. How do you develop a character that you’re only talking about every so often. It’s like they throw them a bone and the bone they throw them is a really bad bone. It’s like oh ah, poor Travis but um, yeah.
Yeah, it also feels like there’s a certain amount of overpacking that goes on you think about the original series and there were characters that we feel are beloved. But when you really scratch through the surface. What do we know about Chekhov. Well he had a russian accent What do we know about sulu there’s a couple of episodes where you see him doing things like fencing and he’s taking doing some botany What do we know about scotty. Well we know a little bit more about scotty. But we don’t know he’s giving it all his can and and he can’t.
Not much. Yeah.
He’s given it all I can.
Cannot give it a more and some of the characterization came from allowing personality of the actor to shine through some of it came through in writing and some of it came through just through ah traits that were allowed to fill in a gap.
Yes.
Gody has his accent chekov has his the by this time in the series Creation. It feels like they’re overpacking the show with backstory and when you overpack with Backstory you are promising something you’re not going to deliver on in every case. We know so much about the backstory of all of the main characters in Enterprise but how can they possibly give attention to all of those if we had no idea that mayweather had grown up on cargo vessels if that wasn’t presented in the pilot then.
Button.
That episode where we see him go home would have been a revelation and it would have felt huge. It would have felt like oh this is cool. We’ve got an opportunity to see more about the guy who flies the ship we’re finding out more about him every episode as opposed to being told through exposition all this information about him and hoshi.
There you go.
And trip and read and we get all this information told to us that invites us to expect more and then when we don’t get it. We’re disappointed and I think that’s I think that’s a mistake that this show is clearly making that they had an overly experienced production team and writers room around creating What was.
As a great assessment. Yeah.
This point the fourth Star Trek series that they were putting together and they were at this point overdoing it at the beginning and not allowing them not coming up with fertile soil to grow in but just coming in with full fledged fully grown plants and expecting them to take root in a shallow.
This is.
Pot of dirt and it wasn’t gonna work. So for today’s episode we’re gonna be talking about as I mentioned before the breach and this episode aired on April Twenty Third two thousand and three and what’s that oh my god what’s that noise. That’s right Matt it’s the read alert. It’s time for you to read the synopsis from Wikipedia last week our listeners will remember that the Wikipedia entry took Matt about 15 minutes to read this one will not and I think Matt will be pleased.
Oh boy.
This one’s shorter. Yes, it’s long.
Although still perplexed by how this is considered a synopsis but I think he will be pleased with the overall synopsis. So let’s let’s take a listen.
The breach is the twenty first episode of the second season and forty seventh episode of the television series star trek enterprise it originally aired on April Twenty Third Two thousand and three on youpn this episode was written by Chris Black and John Shabban from a story by Daniel Mccarthy Robert Duncan Mcneil directs guest stars include Henny Stram Mark Chet is at chat? yeah cheat Laura Putney dcdouglas and Jamison Yang alongside the main cast of the show in the twenty second century star tre enterprise is asked to.
Um, I would say chait.
Take a deep breath. This is the actual synopsis.
Now we’re actually getting into the episode in the 20 yes in the twenty second century starship enterprise is asked to evacuate 3 denoblin geologists from planet after its controlling government is taken over by a militant faction. All it had to do was that last paragraph.
That last paragraph which is basically a sentence and that’s the synopsis. It is arguably the best synopsis we have seen in Wikipedia. However, it is buried underneath all of the preceding information around guest stars and actors and even the network. So.
Yes.
Can I just point out that most of these Wikipedia descriptions strike me as a student that didn’t read their book for their book report and is just padding as much stuff as they can like it’s the twenty first episode on the second season and the forty seventh Forty seventh episode of the series. It’s like.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yes, it’s the and the way it’s written if it was a full-blown elementary school book report if it was anything like the ones I wrote when I was elementary in elementary school. It would end with.
How is that pertinent to anything.
And if you want to know how it ends you’re going to have to read the book yourself. Yeah, budding so April Twenty Third 2003 when this episode air. What was the world like well Matt you’ll remember yet again you were still into club. That’s right, ¢50 was still the number 1 song.
Nicely done Sean.
M.
Anger management for the second week in a row was the top film. It added twenty five million more dollars to its coffers and on television April Twenty Third two thousand and three well we ended up with not good news for enterprise. My wife and kids and George Lopez were airing on Abc with roughly 8000000 viewers star search that show that Matthew and I cannot recall was getting 10000000 viewers that 70 show was getting 11000000 american idol was getting almost 20 a special about psychics on Nbc got almost nine million viewers
Oh that that hurts that one hurts.
And and here’s here’s the here’s the the deepest cut of all that Dawson’s creek got three point five million and enterprise struggled along at 3 point 2 That’s right this week enterprise was in the last place.
Yes, it finally beat them.
awesome
For the week Csi was the most watched program on Cbs it earned 25000000 views and in the world at large from the New York Times many headlines revolving around Iraq where the fighting was already over but now the rebuilding was trying to begin. Iraq was trying to find its footing and in particular the shiites were scrambling for power and tensions were rising between the northern part of the country and the southern part and I couldn’t help but thinking as I was reading about these headlines as I was reading. These articles in New York Times from this day in history that this is where the interesting story of this episode sits which is they go to a planet which has recently gone through a militant effectively a coup. And there is a xenophobic government now in place that is trying to expel any non native species from the planet unfortunately for us the viewer.
They focus on rock climbing.
They focus on rock climbing I I am going to cut to the chase people who have been listening to this episode so far have probably picked up a little bit of snark in my voice as I opened the episode by saying we’re watching paint dry. It occurred to me while I was watching this. There is a famous episode of Mystery Science theater in which the movie depicts a group of people climbing a mountain to find a prehistoric garden of eden at the top of this mountain. And the majority of the film is rock climbing and the joke within the episode is that Joel and the bots continue to say to each other rock climbing rock climbing Joel Rock climbing that’s right crow rock climbing I kept thinking that while I was watching this episode. Not good.
This.
Ah, you know what I kept thinking of.
When a serious dramatic show evokes the punchlines of Mystery Science theater as your first response I was hard pressed to think what could they have been doing that would be less interesting than watching people climb rocks and. Just in a big picture way I would like to invite your thoughts Matt right now. What is it that makes people think that watching somebody else climb a mountain is inherently interesting.
Okay, I’m going to want answer that in a round by way I totally understand why because there’s movies like was it k 2 um There’s some documentaries about rock climbers that do free climbing with no ropes you’re watching because it’s like watching Nascar. Could fall and die at any second tension tension tension. There’s no tension here because these are all main characters. We know they’re not going to fall to their desk so there’s zero tension and so because there’s no tension. It’s like watching paint dry. Um I just want to say.
Right? right? right? right? No yeah.
You were focused on that joke from Mystery Science theater and for me I kept focusing on god I don’t want to do another one of these trek and time episodes where we’re just bagging on this show because it’s like there was so much. There’s so much potential here that I liked from season 1 a little bit and beginning season 2 It’s like oh there’s something here.
Yeah.
But we’re in this slog right now through this show where it’s like dear God Can we just get to the next season because the next season takes a turn in a better direction and has more interesting stories to tell can we just get through this. Ah.
Um, yeah.
At this point it feels very much like watching the cast use wiffle ball bats to beat the crap out of some roadkill. It’s like they are not given anything worth talking about and they are all working so hard at doing.
Ah, it’s all just.
I have to give a tip of the hat to the production of this episode to the directing. Ah Mcneil who people will recall. This is not his first time directing for enterprise and he played Tom Perris on voyager.
Yes, yes.
He does what I think is a movie like job of filming a Tv series in this episode with getting interesting angles and a a set that was clearly designed with verticality in mind and.
This.
In the details around the filming of this episode the actors worked with a stunt coordinator to learn how to successfully repel down the rock face so that they would look like they knew what they were doing I felt bad for the amount of effort that they went into to do something that. Lacked any kind of real dramatic tension.
Like here’s here’s here’s the problem where we’re probably going to spend most of our time a plot b plot a plot a plot I was Goingnna say I was goingnna right? I was gonna but say if you had to pick one. It feels like the rock climbing and getting getting the dodoial lens out.
Yeah, which is which is which is in a hard question to answer. Yeah.
Is supposed to be the a plot. The problem is the B Plot is the plot that should have been the only plot because that’s where the interesting stuff happened and it was a moral debate. Ah.
Yes.
The Asl. Yes.
Lifelong hatred and cycles of violence which you could say is the Middle East it’s just like this never ending just like you’re constantly wronging the other side and it’s never going to stop this never ending war this history of denoblins and how this other species reacts to flocks when he sees him.
Yes.
Amazing tension there and then you have this rock climbing aspect of trying to rescue these denobilans when they finally get to them. The denomials are hysterical of like we’re not leaving but I agree with you they put so much effort into the rock climbing portion of it. It was it really was well executed but it was such a.
Yeah.
Ah, yeah.
Pointless storyline but there were moments that I thought wow that’s really good filmmaking like you pointed out of. There’s a sequence where they fall and they’re sliding down the rock path and Travis his leg. The only thing that saves them from falling.
Um, shatters his leg. Yeah yeah.
His leg gets shunted into this crack in the wall and that’s the only thing that stops them from falling and I’m watching that moment. My wife’s walking to the room and she stops to watch that scene and both of us together. Go oh when he like his leg gets wedged into the wall. It was really well done.
Yeah.
So It’s like it’s It’s a shame because it’s It’s well executed. But it’s the storytelling. It always comes back to the storytelling the problem with this show is not the special effects. It’s typically not the directing. It’s never the acting it always comes down just to the the storytelling choices and I wonder if it was some producer or some executive that was saying you have to sex up. Show There has to be X amount of Action. We can’t just have people talking at each other we have to have something where people are doing something and so they keep trying to shoehorn these action sequences in to a storyline where it doesn’t belong and that’s what it felt like to me here.
Yeah I felt like there was opportunity like you like you pointed out the a story and the b story I felt like the b story. Absolutely the filmmakers thought that the Dr Flock storyline was the b story. I agreed with you and I agreed with you that it should have taken precedence I think that there was also a story to be told in the captain trying to if we had seen somebody from the government that they were talking to on screen if we had seen more of a debate with the captain saying like. We understand your autonomy and we will leave but we need to do the right thing if we had had more opportunity for that kind of debate that might have held more interest. Um, if we had seen somebody within the government basically saying. Behind closed doors look I agree with you I want to help you get your people out of here I don’t agree with this new militant group that’s in charge I want to do the right thing for you but I can’t I’m stuck if we had seen that that would have had more dramatic tension. Storyline between flocks and his patient where both sides have been using the other as the boogieman to scare children is something that star trek has done before but I would argue that the way it’s handled in this episode in particular is one of the best it really between flocks and that patient. The the back and forth and Flox’s revelation by the time the episode ended and it ends it’s very It’s very telling you kind of see inadvertently they show their cards because the episode ends with flocks. It does not end with.
This is.
Rock climbers it ends with flocks. We don’t even see the denobulans who have been rescued after they finally start climbing. We don’t see them once outside the caves we don’t see them. We see them in the shuttle craft leaving but we do not see them on the enterprise we do not see them talking to flocks. We do not see them talking to the Captain. We see flocks writing a letter to his son that he’s estranged from because his son is effectively a racist and that storyline I was just like my god they drop that in in the third act it was incredibly touching and if that had been pushed.
And it was a very touching moment. It was very emotional. Yeah.
Into the second act if that had become the turning point for him of why am I so supercharged about this. It’s because it hits me personally because I know if my son was here my son would say let this guy die that could have been an incredibly charged relationship and floxs. Medical ethics wrestling with the personal hurt that he’s feeling around his son’s relationship to xenophobia that would have been an incredibly dramatic episode and you could have had conversations between him and to Paul around xenophobia that could have been fascinating.
This is.
For having the scene where to Paul steps in and says may I join you and he reluctantly lets her join suddenly you can hear the air going e out of the scene and it doesn’t amount to anything. There’s not a moment where like I wanted there to be that moment of him if he had revealed to her. My son is a xenophobe my son would let this man die and having to Paul have an opportunity. What is a vulcan response to xenophobia it would be evolving literally right now because we know in the future of trek. We know when when Spock’s era we know that later eras are. Where Vulcan thinking around the the other is very different. They have the concept of the idict the infinite diversity in an infant combinations would that be reflected right now or would she say something like my people have given voice to that idea. But we have had a hard time embracing it and I’m only seeing that now aboard this ship that sometimes the lived experience is the the real crucible of where these concepts come to play and it sounds like you’re running full speed into that.
Ah.
That could have been an incredible moment and instead it’s basically she sips her tea and they say a couple of things and it doesn’t amount to much.
Well I actually disagreed that that conversation that you’re talking about between him and Paul in the dining hall I found very emotional by the end because what 1 John billing hit Billings Lee’s performance is spectacular in this. There’s such nuance to what he’s doing.
Yes, yes.
You can see the multi-layers of he’s trying to do the right thing. He’s super uncomfortable with his his people’s history like the whole he gets all clammed up and you can tell he’s very tight and tense in these different scenes when he’s having that moment with Topa by the end of the conversation.
Yes.
He’s crying and he’s emotional and he never ever in the show is this way and what I liked in that moment that scene was to Paul being to Paul she basically suddenly focuses and is like I want to can I help you. It’s like because she recognizes.
Um, yeah.
Here’s here’s a colleague of mine I’ve known for years now and he never does this so clearly this is really distraught. He’s in he’s in distress and so it was nice to see to Paul in her own vulcan way put her hand out to help her friend.
Yes.
And I thought that was ah, really just it was so brief and so tiny. But that moment really hit me I like oh that’s it’s so sweet it to Paul look at her in her vulcan away trying to put her hand out and help him and him being very vulnerable with a colleague when he normally is not so I loved that scene for that 1 specific moment but I do agree with you.
Ah, right.
I Felt like it was that element got lost in the fact that it didn’t have more weight to to do with the overall aspect of the show and the the time spent with the rock climbing and the the clear effort that all of the actors went into.
The most part it kind of like wompump.
Yes, yes.
Um, all of them are completely committed to this. But if you want to have the kind if you still want that rock climbing element in the show invert What they’re doing start the show with the Enterprise has responded to a request From. Denobulin government to go get these scientists and started off with archer saying like I’ve got 3 of my people down on that planet right now getting those scientists start with them finding the scientists start with them already having descended they descended safely. They got down there and now they have found the scientists and now the episode is.
Yeah.
Scientists are reluctant to leave and now the episode is about the tension between the 3 enterprise crewmen who are basically in a position of like we will force you to go when trip says like I will pull my phaser and shoot you in the butt if you don’t get moving like make that the heart of the show.
Earth.
Now It’s not about the tension of oh will 3 of our main characters Die No it becomes Well now we can learn about these other characters and maybe we get committed to them and through the main crew characters bonding with these scientists. And giving us an opportunity to get to learn them to be more than just the 3 stooges because this depiction of the de nobulins looked completely cartoonish. They were. They were kind of blase in a way that seemed like they had written a character description of flocks from the pilot and they were just being.
Yeah, yes.
Earth.
Told to portray that his nuance in what a Denobulin is is so much more sophisticated than what these 3 people were were given. But if you had an opportunity for them to become truly characters and then on the climb out the best moment of the climbing came. When the government became overly aggressive in its pursuit of the former military in a battle that was causing bombing and the shelling that was causing Cave ins if you had. Reversed What was happening if instead of it being the descent to find the scientist if the entire episode had started with them finding the scientist Now. It’s about trying to get out and as they’re trying to get out the shelling is causing Cave ins Now. We could actually worry about characters because now we don’t know if the scientists will live.
Well yes, yes, but but eat.
And we could care about them so it could be. You know you could still have one of them get injured. You could still have like the tension of like the the rock slide and sliding down the face of the cave but you could have built in like we know that we’re not going to see one of the main characters die. But if you let us have time to get to know the scientists and in particular focus on 1 scientist in particular give us somebody to actually care about as a stand-in who then as they’re trying to climb out that person being in mortal danger then that adds the tension that we need.
Um, well this comes back to for every episode. It should have a theme. What is the theme. What is the point we’re trying to say what’s our thesis statement for this story and a plot b plot c plot should always reinforce that theme and this episode has no coherent theme and so the idea. Of this militant ah group that’s taken over the the government. It’s like if they had taken that storyline you have the de nobulin I can’t remember what the other species name was that the denoial lens were suppressing and it was like three hundred years ago there were there’ ztaran so the denolins and taran conflict that ended.
The zanttaran.
Hundreds of years ago but the hatred is still. There could have been reflected in the militant organization that’s taken over this new planet of this is a current war of hatred on this planet so you have the current example of what’s happening you have the past example of what’s happening still stretched over hundreds of years for a lifetime.
Yeah.
And those 2 plots those 2 things thematically could have come together in a more cohesive story but they didn’t do that it was the militant group was purely just a mcguffin to make this time clock of this rock climbing mission for no reason and to me that was the biggest problem.
Yeah.
The show is the lack of a coherent theme. The other thing I wanted to bring up about the rock climbing to pother you at all when they show up at the cave entrance and they have these okay, we have to make their equipment look look really sci-fi okay so how can we make this look really sci-fi okay, let’s put. Lights on gigantic stalks that sick way up above their heads. That’s not gonna be a problem in rock climbing. What? what what? they’re standing outside the entrance I’m like as they all walk in. They’re gonna go Conk Conk Conk on every rock on the ceiling and my my thought first thought was that is the dumbest sci-fi looking like.
Um, yeah.
Rock climbing gear. It would just be like he lamps you’d have a headlamp on your head. That’s all you need. It’s like why are you trying to make this look cool when it looks ridiculous in the first two seconds of like we have these giant stalks that we then have to manipulate. Ah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Feel like there’s this this hesitation to use headlamps because headlamps are goofy and and like yeah they do look dumb but you know the advantage of a headlamp is it also points the direction. Your face is looking so.
Look dumb. Yeah, they look dumb. Yes.
Yes.
I Agreed with you. It was like anytime that they had to look around. They had to reach up find their lamp and adjust it so that they could actually get light where they were supposed to be looking.
Ah, because because you know what you’re doing. You’re rock climbing your hands are busy holding you so you don’t fall. That’s like so let’s make a light that you always have to be just.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and my last quibble and I promise this will be my last quibble and I know this is a minor one and I know it. It’s born largely of. You have a series with your main characters and your show has to tell stories using those main characters I get it I do get it but given that I think that that puts more pressure on the writers to come up with logical realistic reasons as to why. The main characters chosen are the ones doing the thing we’ve got scientists they’re deep in these caves We can’t reach them anyway. Other than people literally going down who are we going to send I’ll send my pilot my chief engineer and my security officer.
Yes.
The only one of those 3 that made any sense was read the only one that made sense was read if this had been read if this right write right.
Well, they didn’t make a case for Travis because in previous episodes. He’s been the rock climber and so it’s like they were like okay, he’s got a ton of rock climbing experience. We do need him so okay, that makes sense. Yes, yes.
But I’m talking about from a ah from a like from a top down military style operation. The only one that made sense was Reid if you say Reid is in charge of this operation. He is taking Travis along because Travis has extensive rock climbing experience but reta has also had training.
You never do this. You never do this.
And then there is a third person who’s going to go along I grow weary of of trip being the stand in for like archer is literally never going on these things unless he gets called in for an extreme reason. Which is following a logic that the next generation tried to follow. It was always Riker Breakker’s job is to be the stand-in but that is not the relationship that trip has on this ship. He’s the chief engineer. You’re not going to send your chief engineer and if you needed there to be that stand-in he needed to be a different role on the show. He he needed to be an executive officer. He needed to be a first officer they needed to to recreate that dynamic because just having your chief engineer go down to do rock climbing.
Yes.
For no reason they didn’t even try to explain it. It was just we got 3 people going down to get these people. One of them is our chief engineer gosh I hope he makes it back like it just it’s too much.
They they could have explained but like the whole reason I was saying that they explained Travis because we’ve seen this in previous episodes. He’s gone rock climbing. So it’s like we’ve we’ve seen that so it’s like for him the expential made sense. They could have said the scientists that are down there have ah an engineering setup. They’re going to need your expertise to help them put this stuff in a way so that they won’t be damaged and all this kind of stuff so we need your engineering expertise to help them get that set up. They could have done that a 2 sentence explanation but they didn’t even try. They didn’t even try. They didn’t even try.
Yeah, yes.
Yes, yes, they could have said anything like that I would have been perfectly happy. Yeah, yeah, yes, and if you had inverted this the climb in the way that I described.
Yeah, yeah.
Potentially like start with them finding the scientist start with them. They’ve already successfully made their descent. You could have had part of then the tension being those geologists had taken down something that was effectively some sort of micro power generator. That unless it’s shut down in just the right way over a longer period of time would be dangerous. They can’t leave it behind and they can’t shut it down properly so he is now helping them fast shut down something that is potentially dangerous that they also have to take out with them. And that then becomes the explanation for why trip is is there again. Another element that adds to the stress of okay are they are they hauling out something that’s a micro power generator that if it doesn’t stay stable could potentially harm them all. So I like your idea of like give an explanation for him I also agree mayweather has we’ve we’ve been told mayweather does this, you could have even have simply said Reid is going down and mayweath is going down and trip is going down because Reid and mayweath read and trip. Have gone rock crime climbing so many times with mayweather. They’re starting to get expertise as well. Something could have been said instead. It was just yeah I’m sending down these guys including my chief engineer and I hope he makes it back. Okay, at that point it might as well have been flocks.
They’re good at it. Yes.
Yeah, my only closing thought on this entire episode is not about the episode but it’s about us bagging on the show week after week I Just want to make a call out to the listeners and watchers I do like this show and I know there’s a lot of people that hate this show I actually do like this show. We’re just in a really.
Yes.
Yes.
Bad patch of episodes on this show as a collection by the time we get done with it there. It left a mark on me that I overall I’m positive on some of the things it did but man there is a run of episodes here that is just like well this is hard watching right now. This.
Yeah I completely agree and I and I echo that sentiment of it is important to remember that we are here because we like Star Trek. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Is tough.
We love we. We love Star Trek It doesn’t sound like we do, but we love Star Trek. Yes.
And and part of the reason for you know in some cases you tend to be more critical of the things you care about ah and I think that that’s part of it for both of us as well is that man I’ve seen there are episodes of Star Trek that can move me to tears.
Yes.
In a heartbeat and in some cases all I have to do is think about the storyline and I get emotional about the strength of the storytelling and the depth of the characters and the things the the overall optimism and idealism of the message of star trek as a whole. And all of those things are what bring us here and when we talk about this particular show in this particular episode in the way that we do it does sound very much like piece of crap piece of crap piece of crap. but but I’m with I’m with you Matt in the. What brings us here and makes us say this thing is because of a passionate caring for and love for what star trek is and what it can be and the amount of time and effort like I said the actors trained for days to be able to do this climbing. They cared about all this and I care about their time and effort I just wish it had amounted to more you know it’s it’s I wish that it I wish that while I was watching the episode I was like oh god this this climbing is is gripping and I don’t mean that literally no pun intended. But. I wish I had felt like oh this was all worth it instead of oh I wish they had just cut to the chase and showed them finding the scientists and have the scientists be given time to develop as characters so we can actually worry about whether they make it out.
Yeah.
This is.
As opposed to you know? do we really think that oh mayweather’s leg is broken. Maybe he’s leaving the series. No, that’s not where we’re thinking. So listeners. Let us know what you think do you agree is this bagging of the show too much or is it. Ah do you agree with us that it’s it’s important to give. Critical feedback to something you care about deeply we are curious and I promise you that if the response is like yeah you guys bag on this too much Matt I can try and pull it back a bit but I have yeah.
Some people might say you’re not punching hard enough.
But do let us know you can reach out through the contact information in the podcast description or you can weigh in on Youtube in the comments and before we sign off Matt is there anything you’d like to remind our listeners about the have coming up.
Um, on undecided with Matt Ferrell next week actually by the time you see this episode that we’re record it now. Um my channel I have an episode about turning the ocean into a battery which I thought was a fun one. It’s worth checking out.
So you’ll be able to just take your hair dryer to the beach with you and throw the cord into the water and you’ll be good to go that’s right just by the time you’re ready to leave. We’ll be at 4 bars.
Just chuck your phone into the ocean and it’ll be charged up in no time.
As for me, you can go to my website http://seanferrell.com you can look for information about my books there or you can go to your local bookstore or Amazon Barnes and noble anywhere books are sold and if you’d like to support the show. Please do consider leaving a review at Apple or Google or Spotify or wherever it is that you picked up this podcast. And obviously if you’re watching this on Youtube just go to the comments there and you can subscribe and you can like and you can become a supporter all that really does help the show. You can go to trekintime show and click the become a supporter button there and that allows you to throw some coins at us aim for the head. That’s all I have to say aim. The head. Thank you so much everybody for listening or watching and we’ll see you in the next one.
Who who are we Sean who are we.
I’m good how you doing.
Youtube channel undecided with Matt Ferrell which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives so between me the writer and him the techie we are trying to be all things trekky. Yeah.
I was so wondering if you were going to do that and you did.
We didn’t want to get there but we did as usual, we invite people to weigh in in the comments you can find the contact information at podcast description or you can write to us through the comments on Youtube either 1 will reach us. We are happy to receive any kind of thoughts about our episodes or the episodes of star trek that we’re watching and Matt I understand you’ve got some things from a recent episode that you wanted to talk about from our commenters.
Yeah, there was ah 1 comment that really caught my eye from hhhann on the episode where we talked about horizon which was Travis going back home and it was one of those rare hey they’re talking about Travis episodes. He said it was great to see some folks on Travis even if the episode was not well written. Flox rarely has his own episodes but they found ways of developing him through his interactions with other characters in the plot far too often. Travis had nothing to do dsign did a better job developing Rom and admiral Ross who were supporting characters. That’s why I called this comment out I thought that was a great astute comment I would argue.
And yes.
Pretty much every other star trek series did a better job developing the minor characters than this show was doing I think they’re really giving short shrift to all of the secondary characters Hoshi Travis even read to a certain extent. They’re basically just focusing on 3 characters for.
Yeah.
4 if you include flocks. But it’s like it seems like they’re incapable of understanding. How do you develop a character that you’re only talking about every so often. It’s like they throw them a bone and the bone they throw them is a really bad bone. It’s like oh ah, poor Travis but um, yeah.
Yeah, it also feels like there’s a certain amount of overpacking that goes on you think about the original series and there were characters that we feel are beloved. But when you really scratch through the surface. What do we know about Chekhov. Well he had a russian accent What do we know about sulu there’s a couple of episodes where you see him doing things like fencing and he’s taking doing some botany What do we know about scotty. Well we know a little bit more about scotty. But we don’t know he’s giving it all his can and and he can’t.
Not much. Yeah.
He’s given it all I can.
Cannot give it a more and some of the characterization came from allowing personality of the actor to shine through some of it came through in writing and some of it came through just through ah traits that were allowed to fill in a gap.
Yes.
Gody has his accent chekov has his the by this time in the series Creation. It feels like they’re overpacking the show with backstory and when you overpack with Backstory you are promising something you’re not going to deliver on in every case. We know so much about the backstory of all of the main characters in Enterprise but how can they possibly give attention to all of those if we had no idea that mayweather had grown up on cargo vessels if that wasn’t presented in the pilot then.
Button.
That episode where we see him go home would have been a revelation and it would have felt huge. It would have felt like oh this is cool. We’ve got an opportunity to see more about the guy who flies the ship we’re finding out more about him every episode as opposed to being told through exposition all this information about him and hoshi.
There you go.
And trip and read and we get all this information told to us that invites us to expect more and then when we don’t get it. We’re disappointed and I think that’s I think that’s a mistake that this show is clearly making that they had an overly experienced production team and writers room around creating What was.
As a great assessment. Yeah.
This point the fourth Star Trek series that they were putting together and they were at this point overdoing it at the beginning and not allowing them not coming up with fertile soil to grow in but just coming in with full fledged fully grown plants and expecting them to take root in a shallow.
This is.
Pot of dirt and it wasn’t gonna work. So for today’s episode we’re gonna be talking about as I mentioned before the breach and this episode aired on April Twenty Third two thousand and three and what’s that oh my god what’s that noise. That’s right Matt it’s the read alert. It’s time for you to read the synopsis from Wikipedia last week our listeners will remember that the Wikipedia entry took Matt about 15 minutes to read this one will not and I think Matt will be pleased.
Oh boy.
This one’s shorter. Yes, it’s long.
Although still perplexed by how this is considered a synopsis but I think he will be pleased with the overall synopsis. So let’s let’s take a listen.
The breach is the twenty first episode of the second season and forty seventh episode of the television series star trek enterprise it originally aired on April Twenty Third Two thousand and three on youpn this episode was written by Chris Black and John Shabban from a story by Daniel Mccarthy Robert Duncan Mcneil directs guest stars include Henny Stram Mark Chet is at chat? yeah cheat Laura Putney dcdouglas and Jamison Yang alongside the main cast of the show in the twenty second century star tre enterprise is asked to.
Um, I would say chait.
Take a deep breath. This is the actual synopsis.
Now we’re actually getting into the episode in the 20 yes in the twenty second century starship enterprise is asked to evacuate 3 denoblin geologists from planet after its controlling government is taken over by a militant faction. All it had to do was that last paragraph.
That last paragraph which is basically a sentence and that’s the synopsis. It is arguably the best synopsis we have seen in Wikipedia. However, it is buried underneath all of the preceding information around guest stars and actors and even the network. So.
Yes.
Can I just point out that most of these Wikipedia descriptions strike me as a student that didn’t read their book for their book report and is just padding as much stuff as they can like it’s the twenty first episode on the second season and the forty seventh Forty seventh episode of the series. It’s like.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yes, it’s the and the way it’s written if it was a full-blown elementary school book report if it was anything like the ones I wrote when I was elementary in elementary school. It would end with.
How is that pertinent to anything.
And if you want to know how it ends you’re going to have to read the book yourself. Yeah, budding so April Twenty Third 2003 when this episode air. What was the world like well Matt you’ll remember yet again you were still into club. That’s right, ¢50 was still the number 1 song.
Nicely done Sean.
M.
Anger management for the second week in a row was the top film. It added twenty five million more dollars to its coffers and on television April Twenty Third two thousand and three well we ended up with not good news for enterprise. My wife and kids and George Lopez were airing on Abc with roughly 8000000 viewers star search that show that Matthew and I cannot recall was getting 10000000 viewers that 70 show was getting 11000000 american idol was getting almost 20 a special about psychics on Nbc got almost nine million viewers
Oh that that hurts that one hurts.
And and here’s here’s the here’s the the deepest cut of all that Dawson’s creek got three point five million and enterprise struggled along at 3 point 2 That’s right this week enterprise was in the last place.
Yes, it finally beat them.
awesome
For the week Csi was the most watched program on Cbs it earned 25000000 views and in the world at large from the New York Times many headlines revolving around Iraq where the fighting was already over but now the rebuilding was trying to begin. Iraq was trying to find its footing and in particular the shiites were scrambling for power and tensions were rising between the northern part of the country and the southern part and I couldn’t help but thinking as I was reading about these headlines as I was reading. These articles in New York Times from this day in history that this is where the interesting story of this episode sits which is they go to a planet which has recently gone through a militant effectively a coup. And there is a xenophobic government now in place that is trying to expel any non native species from the planet unfortunately for us the viewer.
They focus on rock climbing.
They focus on rock climbing I I am going to cut to the chase people who have been listening to this episode so far have probably picked up a little bit of snark in my voice as I opened the episode by saying we’re watching paint dry. It occurred to me while I was watching this. There is a famous episode of Mystery Science theater in which the movie depicts a group of people climbing a mountain to find a prehistoric garden of eden at the top of this mountain. And the majority of the film is rock climbing and the joke within the episode is that Joel and the bots continue to say to each other rock climbing rock climbing Joel Rock climbing that’s right crow rock climbing I kept thinking that while I was watching this episode. Not good.
This.
Ah, you know what I kept thinking of.
When a serious dramatic show evokes the punchlines of Mystery Science theater as your first response I was hard pressed to think what could they have been doing that would be less interesting than watching people climb rocks and. Just in a big picture way I would like to invite your thoughts Matt right now. What is it that makes people think that watching somebody else climb a mountain is inherently interesting.
Okay, I’m going to want answer that in a round by way I totally understand why because there’s movies like was it k 2 um There’s some documentaries about rock climbers that do free climbing with no ropes you’re watching because it’s like watching Nascar. Could fall and die at any second tension tension tension. There’s no tension here because these are all main characters. We know they’re not going to fall to their desk so there’s zero tension and so because there’s no tension. It’s like watching paint dry. Um I just want to say.
Right? right? right? right? No yeah.
You were focused on that joke from Mystery Science theater and for me I kept focusing on god I don’t want to do another one of these trek and time episodes where we’re just bagging on this show because it’s like there was so much. There’s so much potential here that I liked from season 1 a little bit and beginning season 2 It’s like oh there’s something here.
Yeah.
But we’re in this slog right now through this show where it’s like dear God Can we just get to the next season because the next season takes a turn in a better direction and has more interesting stories to tell can we just get through this. Ah.
Um, yeah.
At this point it feels very much like watching the cast use wiffle ball bats to beat the crap out of some roadkill. It’s like they are not given anything worth talking about and they are all working so hard at doing.
Ah, it’s all just.
I have to give a tip of the hat to the production of this episode to the directing. Ah Mcneil who people will recall. This is not his first time directing for enterprise and he played Tom Perris on voyager.
Yes, yes.
He does what I think is a movie like job of filming a Tv series in this episode with getting interesting angles and a a set that was clearly designed with verticality in mind and.
This.
In the details around the filming of this episode the actors worked with a stunt coordinator to learn how to successfully repel down the rock face so that they would look like they knew what they were doing I felt bad for the amount of effort that they went into to do something that. Lacked any kind of real dramatic tension.
Like here’s here’s here’s the problem where we’re probably going to spend most of our time a plot b plot a plot a plot I was Goingnna say I was goingnna right? I was gonna but say if you had to pick one. It feels like the rock climbing and getting getting the dodoial lens out.
Yeah, which is which is which is in a hard question to answer. Yeah.
Is supposed to be the a plot. The problem is the B Plot is the plot that should have been the only plot because that’s where the interesting stuff happened and it was a moral debate. Ah.
Yes.
The Asl. Yes.
Lifelong hatred and cycles of violence which you could say is the Middle East it’s just like this never ending just like you’re constantly wronging the other side and it’s never going to stop this never ending war this history of denoblins and how this other species reacts to flocks when he sees him.
Yes.
Amazing tension there and then you have this rock climbing aspect of trying to rescue these denobilans when they finally get to them. The denomials are hysterical of like we’re not leaving but I agree with you they put so much effort into the rock climbing portion of it. It was it really was well executed but it was such a.
Yeah.
Ah, yeah.
Pointless storyline but there were moments that I thought wow that’s really good filmmaking like you pointed out of. There’s a sequence where they fall and they’re sliding down the rock path and Travis his leg. The only thing that saves them from falling.
Um, shatters his leg. Yeah yeah.
His leg gets shunted into this crack in the wall and that’s the only thing that stops them from falling and I’m watching that moment. My wife’s walking to the room and she stops to watch that scene and both of us together. Go oh when he like his leg gets wedged into the wall. It was really well done.
Yeah.
So It’s like it’s It’s a shame because it’s It’s well executed. But it’s the storytelling. It always comes back to the storytelling the problem with this show is not the special effects. It’s typically not the directing. It’s never the acting it always comes down just to the the storytelling choices and I wonder if it was some producer or some executive that was saying you have to sex up. Show There has to be X amount of Action. We can’t just have people talking at each other we have to have something where people are doing something and so they keep trying to shoehorn these action sequences in to a storyline where it doesn’t belong and that’s what it felt like to me here.
Yeah I felt like there was opportunity like you like you pointed out the a story and the b story I felt like the b story. Absolutely the filmmakers thought that the Dr Flock storyline was the b story. I agreed with you and I agreed with you that it should have taken precedence I think that there was also a story to be told in the captain trying to if we had seen somebody from the government that they were talking to on screen if we had seen more of a debate with the captain saying like. We understand your autonomy and we will leave but we need to do the right thing if we had had more opportunity for that kind of debate that might have held more interest. Um, if we had seen somebody within the government basically saying. Behind closed doors look I agree with you I want to help you get your people out of here I don’t agree with this new militant group that’s in charge I want to do the right thing for you but I can’t I’m stuck if we had seen that that would have had more dramatic tension. Storyline between flocks and his patient where both sides have been using the other as the boogieman to scare children is something that star trek has done before but I would argue that the way it’s handled in this episode in particular is one of the best it really between flocks and that patient. The the back and forth and Flox’s revelation by the time the episode ended and it ends it’s very It’s very telling you kind of see inadvertently they show their cards because the episode ends with flocks. It does not end with.
This is.
Rock climbers it ends with flocks. We don’t even see the denobulans who have been rescued after they finally start climbing. We don’t see them once outside the caves we don’t see them. We see them in the shuttle craft leaving but we do not see them on the enterprise we do not see them talking to flocks. We do not see them talking to the Captain. We see flocks writing a letter to his son that he’s estranged from because his son is effectively a racist and that storyline I was just like my god they drop that in in the third act it was incredibly touching and if that had been pushed.
And it was a very touching moment. It was very emotional. Yeah.
Into the second act if that had become the turning point for him of why am I so supercharged about this. It’s because it hits me personally because I know if my son was here my son would say let this guy die that could have been an incredibly charged relationship and floxs. Medical ethics wrestling with the personal hurt that he’s feeling around his son’s relationship to xenophobia that would have been an incredibly dramatic episode and you could have had conversations between him and to Paul around xenophobia that could have been fascinating.
This is.
For having the scene where to Paul steps in and says may I join you and he reluctantly lets her join suddenly you can hear the air going e out of the scene and it doesn’t amount to anything. There’s not a moment where like I wanted there to be that moment of him if he had revealed to her. My son is a xenophobe my son would let this man die and having to Paul have an opportunity. What is a vulcan response to xenophobia it would be evolving literally right now because we know in the future of trek. We know when when Spock’s era we know that later eras are. Where Vulcan thinking around the the other is very different. They have the concept of the idict the infinite diversity in an infant combinations would that be reflected right now or would she say something like my people have given voice to that idea. But we have had a hard time embracing it and I’m only seeing that now aboard this ship that sometimes the lived experience is the the real crucible of where these concepts come to play and it sounds like you’re running full speed into that.
Ah.
That could have been an incredible moment and instead it’s basically she sips her tea and they say a couple of things and it doesn’t amount to much.
Well I actually disagreed that that conversation that you’re talking about between him and Paul in the dining hall I found very emotional by the end because what 1 John billing hit Billings Lee’s performance is spectacular in this. There’s such nuance to what he’s doing.
Yes, yes.
You can see the multi-layers of he’s trying to do the right thing. He’s super uncomfortable with his his people’s history like the whole he gets all clammed up and you can tell he’s very tight and tense in these different scenes when he’s having that moment with Topa by the end of the conversation.
Yes.
He’s crying and he’s emotional and he never ever in the show is this way and what I liked in that moment that scene was to Paul being to Paul she basically suddenly focuses and is like I want to can I help you. It’s like because she recognizes.
Um, yeah.
Here’s here’s a colleague of mine I’ve known for years now and he never does this so clearly this is really distraught. He’s in he’s in distress and so it was nice to see to Paul in her own vulcan way put her hand out to help her friend.
Yes.
And I thought that was ah, really just it was so brief and so tiny. But that moment really hit me I like oh that’s it’s so sweet it to Paul look at her in her vulcan away trying to put her hand out and help him and him being very vulnerable with a colleague when he normally is not so I loved that scene for that 1 specific moment but I do agree with you.
Ah, right.
I Felt like it was that element got lost in the fact that it didn’t have more weight to to do with the overall aspect of the show and the the time spent with the rock climbing and the the clear effort that all of the actors went into.
The most part it kind of like wompump.
Yes, yes.
Um, all of them are completely committed to this. But if you want to have the kind if you still want that rock climbing element in the show invert What they’re doing start the show with the Enterprise has responded to a request From. Denobulin government to go get these scientists and started off with archer saying like I’ve got 3 of my people down on that planet right now getting those scientists start with them finding the scientists start with them already having descended they descended safely. They got down there and now they have found the scientists and now the episode is.
Yeah.
Scientists are reluctant to leave and now the episode is about the tension between the 3 enterprise crewmen who are basically in a position of like we will force you to go when trip says like I will pull my phaser and shoot you in the butt if you don’t get moving like make that the heart of the show.
Earth.
Now It’s not about the tension of oh will 3 of our main characters Die No it becomes Well now we can learn about these other characters and maybe we get committed to them and through the main crew characters bonding with these scientists. And giving us an opportunity to get to learn them to be more than just the 3 stooges because this depiction of the de nobulins looked completely cartoonish. They were. They were kind of blase in a way that seemed like they had written a character description of flocks from the pilot and they were just being.
Yeah, yes.
Earth.
Told to portray that his nuance in what a Denobulin is is so much more sophisticated than what these 3 people were were given. But if you had an opportunity for them to become truly characters and then on the climb out the best moment of the climbing came. When the government became overly aggressive in its pursuit of the former military in a battle that was causing bombing and the shelling that was causing Cave ins if you had. Reversed What was happening if instead of it being the descent to find the scientist if the entire episode had started with them finding the scientist Now. It’s about trying to get out and as they’re trying to get out the shelling is causing Cave ins Now. We could actually worry about characters because now we don’t know if the scientists will live.
Well yes, yes, but but eat.
And we could care about them so it could be. You know you could still have one of them get injured. You could still have like the tension of like the the rock slide and sliding down the face of the cave but you could have built in like we know that we’re not going to see one of the main characters die. But if you let us have time to get to know the scientists and in particular focus on 1 scientist in particular give us somebody to actually care about as a stand-in who then as they’re trying to climb out that person being in mortal danger then that adds the tension that we need.
Um, well this comes back to for every episode. It should have a theme. What is the theme. What is the point we’re trying to say what’s our thesis statement for this story and a plot b plot c plot should always reinforce that theme and this episode has no coherent theme and so the idea. Of this militant ah group that’s taken over the the government. It’s like if they had taken that storyline you have the de nobulin I can’t remember what the other species name was that the denoial lens were suppressing and it was like three hundred years ago there were there’ ztaran so the denolins and taran conflict that ended.
The zanttaran.
Hundreds of years ago but the hatred is still. There could have been reflected in the militant organization that’s taken over this new planet of this is a current war of hatred on this planet so you have the current example of what’s happening you have the past example of what’s happening still stretched over hundreds of years for a lifetime.
Yeah.
And those 2 plots those 2 things thematically could have come together in a more cohesive story but they didn’t do that it was the militant group was purely just a mcguffin to make this time clock of this rock climbing mission for no reason and to me that was the biggest problem.
Yeah.
The show is the lack of a coherent theme. The other thing I wanted to bring up about the rock climbing to pother you at all when they show up at the cave entrance and they have these okay, we have to make their equipment look look really sci-fi okay so how can we make this look really sci-fi okay, let’s put. Lights on gigantic stalks that sick way up above their heads. That’s not gonna be a problem in rock climbing. What? what what? they’re standing outside the entrance I’m like as they all walk in. They’re gonna go Conk Conk Conk on every rock on the ceiling and my my thought first thought was that is the dumbest sci-fi looking like.
Um, yeah.
Rock climbing gear. It would just be like he lamps you’d have a headlamp on your head. That’s all you need. It’s like why are you trying to make this look cool when it looks ridiculous in the first two seconds of like we have these giant stalks that we then have to manipulate. Ah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Feel like there’s this this hesitation to use headlamps because headlamps are goofy and and like yeah they do look dumb but you know the advantage of a headlamp is it also points the direction. Your face is looking so.
Look dumb. Yeah, they look dumb. Yes.
Yes.
I Agreed with you. It was like anytime that they had to look around. They had to reach up find their lamp and adjust it so that they could actually get light where they were supposed to be looking.
Ah, because because you know what you’re doing. You’re rock climbing your hands are busy holding you so you don’t fall. That’s like so let’s make a light that you always have to be just.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and my last quibble and I promise this will be my last quibble and I know this is a minor one and I know it. It’s born largely of. You have a series with your main characters and your show has to tell stories using those main characters I get it I do get it but given that I think that that puts more pressure on the writers to come up with logical realistic reasons as to why. The main characters chosen are the ones doing the thing we’ve got scientists they’re deep in these caves We can’t reach them anyway. Other than people literally going down who are we going to send I’ll send my pilot my chief engineer and my security officer.
Yes.
The only one of those 3 that made any sense was read the only one that made sense was read if this had been read if this right write right.
Well, they didn’t make a case for Travis because in previous episodes. He’s been the rock climber and so it’s like they were like okay, he’s got a ton of rock climbing experience. We do need him so okay, that makes sense. Yes, yes.
But I’m talking about from a ah from a like from a top down military style operation. The only one that made sense was Reid if you say Reid is in charge of this operation. He is taking Travis along because Travis has extensive rock climbing experience but reta has also had training.
You never do this. You never do this.
And then there is a third person who’s going to go along I grow weary of of trip being the stand in for like archer is literally never going on these things unless he gets called in for an extreme reason. Which is following a logic that the next generation tried to follow. It was always Riker Breakker’s job is to be the stand-in but that is not the relationship that trip has on this ship. He’s the chief engineer. You’re not going to send your chief engineer and if you needed there to be that stand-in he needed to be a different role on the show. He he needed to be an executive officer. He needed to be a first officer they needed to to recreate that dynamic because just having your chief engineer go down to do rock climbing.
Yes.
For no reason they didn’t even try to explain it. It was just we got 3 people going down to get these people. One of them is our chief engineer gosh I hope he makes it back like it just it’s too much.
They they could have explained but like the whole reason I was saying that they explained Travis because we’ve seen this in previous episodes. He’s gone rock climbing. So it’s like we’ve we’ve seen that so it’s like for him the expential made sense. They could have said the scientists that are down there have ah an engineering setup. They’re going to need your expertise to help them put this stuff in a way so that they won’t be damaged and all this kind of stuff so we need your engineering expertise to help them get that set up. They could have done that a 2 sentence explanation but they didn’t even try. They didn’t even try. They didn’t even try.
Yeah, yes.
Yes, yes, they could have said anything like that I would have been perfectly happy. Yeah, yeah, yes, and if you had inverted this the climb in the way that I described.
Yeah, yeah.
Potentially like start with them finding the scientist start with them. They’ve already successfully made their descent. You could have had part of then the tension being those geologists had taken down something that was effectively some sort of micro power generator. That unless it’s shut down in just the right way over a longer period of time would be dangerous. They can’t leave it behind and they can’t shut it down properly so he is now helping them fast shut down something that is potentially dangerous that they also have to take out with them. And that then becomes the explanation for why trip is is there again. Another element that adds to the stress of okay are they are they hauling out something that’s a micro power generator that if it doesn’t stay stable could potentially harm them all. So I like your idea of like give an explanation for him I also agree mayweather has we’ve we’ve been told mayweather does this, you could have even have simply said Reid is going down and mayweath is going down and trip is going down because Reid and mayweath read and trip. Have gone rock crime climbing so many times with mayweather. They’re starting to get expertise as well. Something could have been said instead. It was just yeah I’m sending down these guys including my chief engineer and I hope he makes it back. Okay, at that point it might as well have been flocks.
They’re good at it. Yes.
Yeah, my only closing thought on this entire episode is not about the episode but it’s about us bagging on the show week after week I Just want to make a call out to the listeners and watchers I do like this show and I know there’s a lot of people that hate this show I actually do like this show. We’re just in a really.
Yes.
Yes.
Bad patch of episodes on this show as a collection by the time we get done with it there. It left a mark on me that I overall I’m positive on some of the things it did but man there is a run of episodes here that is just like well this is hard watching right now. This.
Yeah I completely agree and I and I echo that sentiment of it is important to remember that we are here because we like Star Trek. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Is tough.
We love we. We love Star Trek It doesn’t sound like we do, but we love Star Trek. Yes.
And and part of the reason for you know in some cases you tend to be more critical of the things you care about ah and I think that that’s part of it for both of us as well is that man I’ve seen there are episodes of Star Trek that can move me to tears.
Yes.
In a heartbeat and in some cases all I have to do is think about the storyline and I get emotional about the strength of the storytelling and the depth of the characters and the things the the overall optimism and idealism of the message of star trek as a whole. And all of those things are what bring us here and when we talk about this particular show in this particular episode in the way that we do it does sound very much like piece of crap piece of crap piece of crap. but but I’m with I’m with you Matt in the. What brings us here and makes us say this thing is because of a passionate caring for and love for what star trek is and what it can be and the amount of time and effort like I said the actors trained for days to be able to do this climbing. They cared about all this and I care about their time and effort I just wish it had amounted to more you know it’s it’s I wish that it I wish that while I was watching the episode I was like oh god this this climbing is is gripping and I don’t mean that literally no pun intended. But. I wish I had felt like oh this was all worth it instead of oh I wish they had just cut to the chase and showed them finding the scientists and have the scientists be given time to develop as characters so we can actually worry about whether they make it out.
Yeah.
This is.
As opposed to you know? do we really think that oh mayweather’s leg is broken. Maybe he’s leaving the series. No, that’s not where we’re thinking. So listeners. Let us know what you think do you agree is this bagging of the show too much or is it. Ah do you agree with us that it’s it’s important to give. Critical feedback to something you care about deeply we are curious and I promise you that if the response is like yeah you guys bag on this too much Matt I can try and pull it back a bit but I have yeah.
Some people might say you’re not punching hard enough.
But do let us know you can reach out through the contact information in the podcast description or you can weigh in on Youtube in the comments and before we sign off Matt is there anything you’d like to remind our listeners about the have coming up.
Um, on undecided with Matt Ferrell next week actually by the time you see this episode that we’re record it now. Um my channel I have an episode about turning the ocean into a battery which I thought was a fun one. It’s worth checking out.
So you’ll be able to just take your hair dryer to the beach with you and throw the cord into the water and you’ll be good to go that’s right just by the time you’re ready to leave. We’ll be at 4 bars.
Just chuck your phone into the ocean and it’ll be charged up in no time.
As for me, you can go to my website http://seanferrell.com you can look for information about my books there or you can go to your local bookstore or Amazon Barnes and noble anywhere books are sold and if you’d like to support the show. Please do consider leaving a review at Apple or Google or Spotify or wherever it is that you picked up this podcast. And obviously if you’re watching this on Youtube just go to the comments there and you can subscribe and you can like and you can become a supporter all that really does help the show. You can go to trekintime show and click the become a supporter button there and that allows you to throw some coins at us aim for the head. That’s all I have to say aim. The head. Thank you so much everybody for listening or watching and we’ll see you in the next one.